E047: Engineering Resilience and Reinvention

Mark McBride-Wright 0:00
Mark, hello. Welcome to the next safe leader podcast episode. I am your host, Mark McBride-Wright, and today I’m joined by Thea Phillips, who is a mechanical engineer, inventor and purpose driven founder dedicated to expanding access to affordable health care. As the CEO of ATS innovations Inc, she’s the creator of the metaflex glove, an innovative Medicare approved wearable medical device designed to restore mobility and relieve chronic hand fatigue for millions of patients. Thea began developing metaflex As a young engineer determined to tackle real world inequity in healthcare access, growing it from an early prototype into a nationally recognized medical product. Her career spans advanced manufacturing, continuous improvement and Process Engineering at organizations including the Y 12 national security complex, where she worked in high risk environments, improving production systems. She has also supported technology commercialization at Tennessee Technological University, serving as assistant director for the TN technology advancement consortium and mentoring student innovators, a passionate advocate for human centered engineer engineering. Tia brings Tia brings a rare blend of technical rigor, systems thinking and social purpose to her work. She is emerging as one of the most inspiring young innovators helping shape the future of wearable health technology. Tia, welcome.

Téa Phillips 1:33
Thank you for that mark that was very kind.

Mark McBride-Wright 1:36
Oh, I’m, I’m, you are like one of the most perfect guests to have on this podcast. You know, you’re the stuff that you’re doing as an engineer relates directly onto what my business does. Equal engineers helping improve access and widening, widening participation and using engineering to, you know, help everyone live a better life. And so, yeah, let’s where to start. Where to start? Usually, we start finding out more about the engineer, the person who’s in front of us. So are you good to do that?

Téa Phillips 2:13
Yeah, happy to give you a little synops and to tell you so I, I’m based in Tennessee, in the US right now I’m in Cookeville, Tennessee, which is the same city where I went to college. I went to Tennessee Tech University for mechanical engineering. Before that, I was in Shelbyville. It’s where I grew up. It’s a tiny, tiny little town, very southern, Mary country and Cookeville gave me my degree. It’s where I invented the metaflex glove, and then went on to Oak Ridge and worked as an engineer, you know, for the Department of Energy for a few years. And then three years in, decided that it was time to bet on myself, and really it’s because I made metaflex for my grandmother, and at that point, she was starting to get worse in her health, so I felt like I needed to make this real. I had had this idea, and I had started working on it, but I wasn’t brave enough to really just jump in and do the whole business thing, because it’s very difficult. But I felt like it was time and I needed to work on bringing metaflex to the world. So I’ve been doing metaflex full time since 2021 the end of 2021

Mark McBride-Wright 3:43
tell us more about the technology. Then you know, what is metaflex? What does it do? What does it alleviate? Talk us through the prototypes, the long hours, working late at night. You said you’d started on it, but then it never quite gotten somewhere. Then you had this origin moment of right alignment between personal purpose and side hustle endeavors came together, and you were going to make it happen, which you’re doing, talk us through that journey. And also a bit about metaflex First, maybe so we’re familiar with with what it is and what it does. Okay?

Téa Phillips 4:20
Metaflex is a compression glove that has these stretchy resistance bands on the back of the glove so that it keeps your fingers extended. The idea is you have the compression for pain relief and swelling and stiffness relief, and then these resistance bands, which are adjustable with Velcro the level of resistance, and they work to open your fingers so it I made this as a wearable grip strengthener for people with arthritis, I found that compression and grip strengthening were two of the best ways to manage arthritis. The strengthening just to help increase muscle strength. Relieve pressure from the joints and like, get you moving and compression for pain. So I also found that people weren’t doing their strengthening exercises because it’s time consuming and a burden. So I made a wearable strengthener so that as you go about your day, you’re building your strength. But it’s also really comfortable to wear because it’s got this compression that helps with pain. So that’s where we started, and we made it in college at Tennessee Tech University. Graduated that same year that we our University had a pitch competition called Eagle works, and it’s kind of like Shark Tank. So you make your pitch, you have, like, what, five minutes, something like that on stage, and then two minute Q and A saying, like, here’s the problem, solution, my customer, like, here’s how I’m going to sell it and and building this idea. And we won the competition. So we won first place, and we won a second award, which was the biggest social impact award, and so that kind of fueled the fire a little bit. We had enough money to start getting patents and start establishing the company. And then from there, we went on to a state competition, which was done by launch Tennessee. It was a student pitch competition, and we won third place. So that put like $16,000 in the bank, which was a good place to start. So we got patents, we got prototypes. We were working on it, but I graduated that same year, and I only had that much money, like I didn’t. I didn’t have a big savings account, so I had a full time job offer in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, and I took it, and that allowed me to save up and also just learn more and become more confident in my ability to run a company. So I am. I spent a little time preparing when I was at y 12, and then I quit, and my parents were very concerned, but it ultimately has worked out. We got it on the market in 2023 took a little longer than I wanted it to. I quit my job having a manufacturer having samples approved, but with it being a medical device, there are so many registrations that I have to do, and fracture has to do, yeah, that

Mark McBride-Wright 7:23
was going to be one of my questions, like, in terms of, like, getting it validated and verified. And, you know, it’s, it’s, you open yourself up to so much legal risk if you make claims that aren’t substantiated and quantified by a medical professional. So did you have to go through that phase as part of this journey.

Téa Phillips 7:43
Yeah, so metaflex is a class one medical device, right? And that’s because it has compression, and the compression changes the way that the body functions. So to make claims about pain relief and all of the things that come with compression. We had to file as a class one medical device, and that comes with not a lot of pre work, like, we didn’t have to do any clinical trials. We didn’t have anything like that, because other gloves have been on the market. And we can say, you know, ours, we can base like our claims on compression based on like research that’s already been done on compression and our claims on strengthening based on claims that have already been done by strengthening, because, you know, compression isn’t proprietary or anything like that. So it took a lot of time, mainly because it was a lot of money. Takes a lot of money to file with the with the FDA, is a medical device establishment, and that fee is going up like 20% every single year. It’s a huge barrier to innovation. The first year I filed this, it was $5,200 which is crazy. Imagine just five, just for a license, $5,200 and then the next year, it goes up. This year, going into 2026 it’s $11,000 $11,000 and they sell a device that helps people with their health. So it’s, it’s a huge we have a lot of problems in the US, in our medical system, and this is one of the this is definitely one of them, because people have ideas that can help people, but the barrier to entry is always money. Every single time, how

Mark McBride-Wright 9:28
well it’s it’s amazing that you’re you’re at, to the stage that you’re at where it’s 2025 now, then nearly 2026 Wait, how is the company doing the product,

Téa Phillips 9:41
doing doing well. We’re growing really fast. A lot of people love metaflex. I mean, as soon as we launched, we were selling. As soon as we launched, we had reviews saying, this has changed my life. Oh my Oh, my goodness. Thank you for inventing this. Like my husband can sleep, like my mom, like. Her hands feel better. So it’s been a really rewarding but very difficult experience. The company is growing. We just launched a new product, which is the Pro. The Pro has stronger resistance bands. So it’s one of the most common questions we got from our customers were, are you going to make this stronger? Because we have made metaflex as a gentle strengthener for people with arthritis that have, like normal, to lower grip strength and are working on improving their mobility, but metaflex as a recovery device for stretching and compression. That’s really good for anyone who’s using their hands in a really difficult, high impact way. So, like athletes, musicians, I mean golfers, it’s it’s anybody typing, landscapers, and those people have stronger grip. And they also need, like, a deep, they want a deep stretch. And so we made the Pro, and we launched that just two weeks ago. And that one’s that one’s doing really well as well

Mark McBride-Wright 11:11
the chains, or, you know, real real estate shops. And have you bootstrapped the company up until now? Invest in the profits that you make? Or have you taken investment from, you know, from people in any way? Yeah.

Téa Phillips 11:27
So about the pharmacies. We did get into several pharmacies. When I launched, I just boots on the ground, drove around, called everybody. I’m like, Hey, I got this thing. I got this thing. Come look at it. They’d look at it. They’d like it. They’d get it in the pharmacy. I also designed the packaging at that point so they’re not we need to redo the packaging and get things moving a little better in pharmacy. We’re definitely making the most money direct to consumer through our website and our Amazon page, and as far as funding 2023 when I launched the product, it was bootstraps. I, you know, had gotten some personal loans. I liquidated my retirement, I liquidated every stock that I had, I maxed out my credit cards, and I got us to market, and we were helping people. And since then, I have taken on investment, because the nature of the company, it takes a lot of money to run this kind of company. With the FDA fees, I have to buy inventory in bulk. I’ve got employees where we’re still at a point where we’re we’re growing, but we need to invest in things that’ll, that’ll help us, like, really hit that next level, like, really good ads, things like that.

Mark McBride-Wright 12:47
Yeah, of course, you’re in, you’re in probably one of the world’s largest markets as well. Inherently, yeah, in the US. So how, what? What’s your strategy like? What do you need to happen to take you to that next level? Is it? Is it a widening portfolio mix of new products, like a product pipeline? Or do you think you’ve already got your best seller with the Netflix glove, and therefore, you know going deeper with that and more as international on your plans.

Téa Phillips 13:23
I think the metaflex sells well, and it helps a lot of people. I do have a version coming out next year that is going to help, that I think is going to sell better. Okay, honestly, it’s got little bits and pieces that people have been asking me for so we’re continuing to innovate, and that’s definitely going to up our sales. Launching in new colors, is going to up our sales, allowing people to buy in their favorite color and mix and match with their outfits as the seasons change. That’s going to be really, really big for us, and it’ll also contribute to this idea that I have of, like, healthcare being something that you should show off, and it’s something that’s fashionable and cool and like, forward thinking and like, Whoa, you’re you’re working on your handheld before you even have arthritis, or before, like, your carpal tunnel is really bad. So we’ve got these, this version that’s coming out next year that’s just stylish and sleek, and it’s gorgeous, and I can’t wait. Other than that, it’s, it’s, it’s getting more investors. It’s finding more money to help fuel this, this growth. E commerce is expensive. It’s expensive. Running ads,

Mark McBride-Wright 14:40
yeah, cost more acquisition and cost per click, things like that,

Téa Phillips 14:45
yeah, yeah. And eventually you get where, where it’s just a machine that’s fueling itself, yeah? But we’re still early. We’re not there yet.

Mark McBride-Wright 14:53
Do you do anything with any of the societies like the American Society of Mechanical Engineers or. Or any of those

Téa Phillips 15:01
good idea I haven’t talked to them since I graduated college. Okay, so do you think I should reach out? What can they do for me?

Mark McBride-Wright 15:13
I think that Mike, I can’t speak on behalf of them, but I mean, I think this would be something that then, yes, absolutely, should. You should tap into that. And I have some connections there that I can make an introduction for you.

Téa Phillips 15:30
So, wonderful Mark, thank you. That’s not a problem.

Mark McBride-Wright 15:33
I think what you’re doing is incredible. And you know, it’s my grandfather and Nana had had arthritis, and I could see the they almost like froze their hands to some extent, you know. And it’s tough, you know. And there’s other areas of your body as well that joints can seize up. So, you know, product development to help in those areas as well. I guess would could be part of your product product pipeline. I’m really interested in your like. You’re an entrepreneur, you’re an engineering entrepreneur, developing inclusive products that solve real life issues and problems and barriers that people face. What are your views on how well we embrace entrepreneurship and engineering? Hmm,

Téa Phillips 16:33
I I think, as I’ve studied Business and Entrepreneurship, there seems to be a commonality among companies that do really well, and a lot of them are founded or started or led by engineers, because an engineering degree is a degree in problem solving, and you’re constantly like you you run up against a formula that you don’t know how to solve, or like something and like you have to find the missing piece. And it’s a it’s a degree in problem solving, which is also kind of a degree in resilience, like you’re so I think engineering primes you to be a really good entrepreneur. A lot of my personal friends that are that I went to engineering school with, I think only one of them has a company, and he had it in engineering school, and it was part of like his family, like they owned this, and then he owns this and but I want to see more innovation coming out of my classmates, because I know like they’re trained for it, they can absolutely do it.

Mark McBride-Wright 17:47
I agree more. I couldn’t agree more. I I don’t think we’re aligning the entrepreneurial spirit with engineering or teaching entrepreneurial skills to engineers who don’t do us, you know, a minor in Business Administration and choose to integrate it as part of their their education experience. I think there’s so much more we could do with entrepreneurship in engineering, because as you say, the raw, kinda fertile potential is there, but are the hearts and minds being shaped in a way that it can be channeled in that direction? And it’s, I think we’re in a really interesting transition in how people earn their living. You know, you know, getting a job for one company for 50 odd years that’s going to pay you a great pension when you retire. You know that Gone are those days that’s just no longer and with the generation coming through now, Gen Z and Gen alpha, even, you know, once they enter the workforce in 2040, onwards, I think people are going to be choosing their own hours, how they work, having flexible, integrated working, you know? And obviously, if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re an owner, you can you’re never all it’s a trade off, right? You’re you’re never fully off. You’re always kind of on partly, but then equally, you get to choose your own like how you work and where you work from. How so, how do you find what when you were in industry, then and then transition, transitioned into being your own boss, being accountable for your own time. How did you find those two cultures and ways of working. But do you have a preference of one?

Téa Phillips 19:44
I prefer what I’m doing now, yeah, but what I’m doing now is way harder.

Mark McBride-Wright 19:50
Yeah, totally, yeah. It’s not easy. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s, it’s, it’s that risk, rewards trade off.

Téa Phillips 19:56
I I feel like I got bored when I was. Working for someone else. I went in at these times I made this much money, when I needed to get promoted, when I wanted to make more money, it was like you spend this much time, and then you get this much, and then you spend this much time and you get this much. Some people like that structure and that predictability, I felt like it was limiting my potential and I didn’t have the opportunities that I wanted to have. And doing this, I make decisions that shape the top line and the bottom line, and I decide how much money I pay myself and things like that, and we’re still in an early stage where I’m like, Oh, I don’t really need, I don’t need a lot. I I’m gonna definitely be here on Sunday, like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna take care of it, don’t worry. But, but the opportunity is that I get to a place where I can do more of what I want to do, and I still do a lot of what I want to do, like, I make a nail appointment midday on Wednesday, and I’m like, I’ll just come in for a couple hours in the morning, and then I’m going to take a self care day. But I need to schedule self care days, because I can definitely overwork myself. It’s I really like it. I like it. It’s very challenging. And I think the reason that I can do something this challenging is because I’ve made a product that’s helping people with their health, and they’re regaining their independence, and they’re they’re able to do the things they love again. And I think if I had something that wasn’t have such a having such an impact on my end customer, that I would be growing it differently in a way that’s more sustainable to my health. But this I’m like, driving fast. We’re like, really chasing, chasing the sales and chasing the opportunities, because this kind of product has an opportunity to be a huge, hugely successful, hugely profitable business because of because of the product we sell.

Mark McBride-Wright 22:07
Yeah, but you’re right. You have to keep in mind your health and well being in the pursuit of that. And I think that’s what’s so exciting about product based businesses you have, that you infinite scale factor to the boundary of which the market exists for the thing that you’ve invented and that you’re bringing into fruition. And some very niche markets can still be very large markets as well. And so owning a space in that that’s part of the marathon, isn’t it? That’s part of the the journey. How do you feel? Just one so I’m reading a lot of Daniel Priestley’s content just now. He’s another Australian entrepreneur who now lives in London, and he’s got this ecosystem of of support, and his ambition is to help create successful entrepreneurs. And there is something that he that he runs, called the key person of influence program, and I’m wondering how much you’ve tapped into your origin story, like, the reason why you set the business up, and what drives you to then be the front of funnel, to help bring customers in. You know, to help bring customers in. Do you think there’s, there’s a big sigh. What’s that for?

Téa Phillips 23:37
There’s a lot of opportunity there. I haven’t done enough of it. Yeah, yeah. That’s one of the things that I definitely haven’t done enough of, is just getting in front of the camera and being like, hey,

Mark McBride-Wright 23:48
it’s not just that. It’s the it’s the I think you I mean, we’ve only met, we’ve only met one another for 23 minutes so far. But what I’m, what I’m picking up from you, is is it’s because it’s such a great product, and there is a deeper origin story behind it. I’m sure. You know, we haven’t gone in detail, but why you like that emotional arc through it, and that, you know, doing more podcasts, getting your maybe even a book, is in you at some point, I think getting that out into the world and then becoming a keynoter at conferences and presentations at company events, a young female engineer becoming an entrepreneur, embracing entrepreneurship, creating metaflex glove. That’s, you know, scaling. That is a brilliant TEDx talk title as well, you know. So I think you might find with working in those bits, there’s more value within you, value in your story than you’re potentially mining. And if you can build up that. Or you know, that profile, that persona, that outreach, then that is what will have an impact in bringing your cost of customer acquisition down, because as your notoriety scales, you win more awards you know, you you become that front of funnel person, and if you’ve got the team behind you that can help handle that, you can then choose when you turn the tap on with the supply and demand. It works well for consulting businesses and service based businesses and for product based businesses. I’ve never run a product based business. I couldn’t, I couldn’t really give deep experience on that, but that’s that I think you’ve definitely got got something there. Yeah, so with the interested to explore a bit more about the you mentioned the Tennessee student group that you were part of, or you did met. You did math Lex as part of of a design project. Perhaps how I’ve seen, I’ve been at a few universities where I’ve seen some really exciting student societies that are tasked with creating innovative products like that’s why they get together. So we run the engineering talent awards in the UK. There was a student society at University of Strathclyde in Scotland, and the Enable society used to produce 3d printed prosthetics for animals and for well, for animals, mainly, they had a use case of a cat that they printed a prosthetic leg for, and it was able to to walk again. And, you know, I was just absolutely amazed at the the these societies that exist beyond just mechanical engineering, chemical engineering, you know, they’re actually interdisciplinary. And I came to the US last year and did a visit at Northeastern University in Boston, at the campus in Boston, and again, there was another student society that were just making products for local community groups. They had use cases of where they would work with the local community to integrate, either it be electronics or something physical or, you know, I can’t remember, all the products that they had. They had a whole laboratory full of them. So is this? Is this something that the US embraces in the Engineering Student Education scene, like, is there a lot of new ideas being generated that because of the mismatch in this funding opportunity, or the lack of spark to take it to the next level? You being the outlier who has done that? Do you think there’s a sort of hub of potential that’s not being cultivated within the US?

Téa Phillips 28:09
I think there’s a lot more that we can do. I think there’s some that we some that we are doing. And I can’t speak to all of the universities or widely across the US, because I haven’t paid attention to what everybody else is doing. But at Tennessee Tech University, this came from a CO we had a club called innovation in healthcare, and the idea was to bring together nursing and engineering students so that you could find ways to solve problems that existed in the healthcare space with an engineering mindset. And I think students are really primed to do this kind of work because they are. Their minds are more free. They’re they they have less of the like, go to work, do this, do this, do this, do this. They have a little a little bit more time, I think, maybe, to innovate and to dream. And a lot of what they’re having to do in school is, is dreaming up and problem solving and things like that. So I think we can see a lot of good stuff coming out of university. But yeah, multidisciplinary is really important. We know the best teams that are the most productive and make the most money are diverse teams, because everyone has a different perspective, and they’re able to lend that to the to the project and that that creates better outcomes. I think there’s more that we can do. I think we need to focus more on on bringing together people who have been through different things and have different ideas to solve problems together. But yeah, Tennessee Tech is definitely getting started in those things, and I hope other universities are as well. Amazing.

Mark McBride-Wright 29:49
How do you find being a female entrepreneur, being a female engineering entrepreneur? Do you are you perceived differently? Is there any difference? Is an advantage? Is there a barrier? Do you not see any difference? Do you see, yeah, hurry, really,

Téa Phillips 30:05
not an advantage, right? Maybe, maybe, like an internal advantage, like, female founders have better returns. Female founders make more money. Female founders have teams that stay longer. They work more with with empathy and EQ and IQ. So I definitely see it as a superpower, in a way, for my business to be more successful. But as far as being perceived by the outside world, like female founders have a harder time raising money,

Mark McBride-Wright 30:37
1% of VC funding or something goes to female backed businesses. And I remember when I first heard that statistic, and I just it just seems unfathomable. It just seems like disproportionately small, not even like it’s so absurd that it doesn’t sound correct,

Téa Phillips 30:58
but it Yeah, less than 2% of VC funding goes to female founders. Raising money has been incredibly difficult for me. I’ve made it happen. I have to continue making it happen, and it is insanely difficult. And I think it’s because historically, I mean, it wasn’t until 50 years ago that women could have a bank account, separate, without a co signer, without a husband, to, you know, be treated equally in the workplace. We’re not even there yet. So we have disproportionately amount of men that are wealthy versus women that are wealthy. And when people are betting on a startup. It’s so risky. Like startups, there’s a huge potential, but there’s also a huge risk, and the risk all falls down to whether the entrepreneur is resilient enough. It’s like, will the product work? Can you sell it? Yeah, easy. But like when it gets hard, when it gets tough, do I believe in this person, and you believe in people really, that you can relate to? This is my theory, and I think that’s why majorly women aren’t invested in because majorly men have money and they can’t relate to me. And maybe that’s maybe that’s the problem. I don’t know why women don’t get invested in it as much as men do, but I know that the people who have written me the checks the fastest are women. They’re like, I see it, I believe in it. Here you go and but i There are very few women on my cap table because I just can’t find them. I can’t find women with money. So shout out, if anybody here, yeah, if there’s a wealthy woman listening and you want to support ATS innovations, reach out to me. Please go to our website, contact us. Let me know, because we we can build this together, but it has to be together. Yeah? Do it alone, absolutely.

Mark McBride-Wright 33:02
Yeah, no, that’s I was at an event a couple of months ago, and it was run by a queer Investment Network here in London, but I met some people through that. So yeah, let me do a bit of a dig, try and find, find some names again, because they’re Yeah. See, I’ve bootstrapped everything that I’ve done with my company with equal engineers, which has ups and downs, you know, pros and cons and Yeah, certainly a challenging environment, with the whole phrase, when America sneezes, the world catches a cold. So the ripple effect of the DEI push back, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, I think it’s happening in the background, but we’re just not, it’s not overtly being said, necessarily. So I don’t know. I’m just having to keep innovating as well. Then again, I’ve always been a big believer that actually, the work on dei is about creating a safe culture, ultimately, and that’s why, nearly two years ago, I wrote my book, I created this podcast. We’ve got a training course, got this whole ecosystem of stuff linking EDI to safety and engineering leverage in the familiarity that engineers with physical safety, extending it to psychological safety, so that they’ve got a non threatening language that they that’s familiar to them. And then we start digging into, you know, the needs of underrepresented groups or those that are marginalized. You know, engineering construction have very high suicide rates that affect many people, but especially men. So this is my real sweet spot. It’s like, well, hang on, if intention, if inclusion and belonging is creating a space where you can be your whole self, bring your best. Self to work, be open about whatever might be going on in your mind. Clearly, we’re not achieving that for even the male majority. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have this high incident rate of suicidal ideation self harm, and on a physical safety basis, we would never tolerate such a high rate of loss of life due to any physical incidents. So let’s treat the mind with the same respect and discipline as we do the rest of the body. Your product wouldn’t be able to come to market without being thoroughly and rigorously tested or validated, or, you know, conformed with past references on what it does and claims verified, because, again, it affects physical health. So, you know, that’s, that’s area that I’m really interested in. So, yeah, pivoting my business to to evolve. You know, I think it’s about evolution, you and I think it’s good sometimes to be challenged, to be not just very lacy fair. And think things are always going to be this way, and just keep chugging along and going. I think what we’re seeing play out is a bit of a bit of a reset and that, and that’s where, like businesses like yours, I find interesting, because, you know, where there is an obvious end application in inclusive innovation, you know, creating products that solve problems for people, that alleviate pain, for people, doesn’t matter about your skin color, doesn’t matter about your sexual orientation, doesn’t matter about your gender, etc, etc. We all have hands. We all have hands that might get well, not all of us have hands. I appreciate that. But you know, for the majority of people that do do, and even if some someone doesn’t, you know, we all, we all have a human body that will experience pain at some point. So at the top most level, any innovation in medical devices and medical technology that can support pain, allevement for anyone, what with what you may be going through that takes into account the physicality and the barriers that are experienced in that moment. I think there, there is, there’s a big market for that. And I also think there’s a big market for I often see things happen too late in a design. You know, if it’s designing, what anything, whether it be a physical product or, you know, a new building. You know, too often engagement with the intended user happens too late in the game. You know, imagine you designed metaflex without consulting with the community that’s going to benefit from it. People with arthritis. I’m sure you had people with arthritis constantly in the loop, helping inform the product development, getting feedback and iterating and improving. Yeah, yeah. How did you find that actually? How did you engage with your target audience during the product’s development,

Téa Phillips 38:04
I was taught at Tennessee Tech University. Shout out when I went through the eagle works coaching before we did the pitch. Yeah, they have, they have sessions like every Wednesday night, where you come in and you learn a thing and then you do the thing. I also was fortunate enough to take a class, so, like a business class that was focused on the eagle works thing. So it was like, here’s what you need to think about to build a business. And they’re like, customer, talk to your customer before you do anything. Talk to your customer. Like, think the Mom Test. Have you that there’s a book called the Mom Test, and the idea is that your mom is going to tell you that anything’s a good idea. Like, talk to somebody else, talk to your customer. Like, don’t talk to your supporters, talk to your customer. So from the beginning, we were like, we were talking to the librarians at we were like, working in the library, and then we go talk to the librarians, like, hey, just wondering, like, we’re doing this thing, what do you think? And then constantly, we’re talking to occupational therapists. So we wanted to know from the professionals who would recommend the product and who are treating people who have arthritis. And it took a while to narrow that down to OTS. We’re like, is that nurses? Is that physical therapist? Is it occupational therapist? Is this your primary care? Like none of us had arthritis, so we didn’t know what to do. We found it was OTs, and there’s a sub specialty and occupational therapist called a certified hand therapist. And those people, they’re very specialized. There’s only a few of them, but we found those people, we found the professionals, and then we found people with arthritis. And we said, what do you think? What do you use? It’s not, what do you think about the product? It’s, do you have this problem? How are you currently solving the problem? What do you like and what do you not like about the way you’re currently solving the problem? Would you then solve the problem like this and trying not to sway their answers, which is difficult, and you just have to think about the wording, not like, oh my gosh, I made this. What do you think about this? It can’t be. You can’t go into it like that. It’s like, what if it did like this? No, okay, what if it did like this? And so it was, it was a lot of talking with the customer, and honestly, our first product was pretty close, pretty close to what the customer wanted. And then I got it on the market, I bought a few 100, and then I bought a few 1000. And then people are like, I don’t like this, and so I’m like, All right. And then we change it in the next iteration, and it’s, it’s been pretty good. And I really love talking to our customers. Sometimes they don’t like the glove, but most of the time they really like it, and they’re like, oh my gosh, I’m using it for this. And I’m thinking, Whoa, I didn’t even radial nerve palsy. I didn’t even know that was a thing, because I’m an engineer, so I brought a certified Hand Therapist onto the team, and he’s helping not only make sure we stay compliant with like FDA and like making sure none of our marketing language is off, but also, just like growing the list of things that metaflex is helpful for, Like, we’re helping stroke patients, people with Parkinson’s, obviously arthritis, carpal tunnel, trigger finger, dupentrins. We’re helping musicians and athletes recover after they play. So it’s, it’s a list that’s just growing. You think about scrolling on your phone, sometimes your thumb hurts. Even me, I’m 29 and my hands will sometimes curl up at night. I don’t know why I think it. It correlates to sometimes when I go bowling and then my hands curled up at night, or I’m moving, or I’m typing all day, or something like that. So meta Flex is has been a fantastic recovery tool for more than we made it for, and it’s because we were paying attention to how people are using it, and we’re talking to the customer.

Mark McBride-Wright 42:03
What about people with skin conditions like eczema or arthritis? You know, where they might be putting ointment on and stuff like that is there? I know people who’ve lived with that and then, and that’s not something that goes away either. You know, it’s about management. Sometimes it can be bad. Sometimes it can be fine. Is it does that is that one of the benefits

Téa Phillips 42:28
you can put a cream and ointment, anything like that, on and then put on the metaflex glove. Metaflex is made with a really breathable fabric. So it’s not going to really trap anything in there, but it is. It is going to hold on to it a little longer, because it is a it’s it’s another layer on top of that that stops it from evaporating. Okay, um, but, yeah, you can definitely pair those things together. I also have an advisor who did use an arthritis pain cream and doesn’t use it anymore because of metaflex. So it’s helping people come off of some not like eczema cream, but like some of the other things that they’re using to manage their pain, interesting, right?

Mark McBride-Wright 43:11
Okay, are you ready for quick fire question round,

Téa Phillips 43:16
I will try to be concise with my answers. I’m a bit long winded at times,

Mark McBride-Wright 43:21
wow, I will be like the game show host that keeps you succinct. Okay, okay, okay, right. Can you tell me a failure that later became one of your best breakthroughs?

Téa Phillips 43:38
Um, recently I I, I put the wrong things into what I sent the manufacturer, and we ended up with a pro surprise.

Mark McBride-Wright 43:50
Oh, wow, cool.

Téa Phillips 43:53
Yeah, yeah, great. So, and people love it. They love it. So, great, great product.

Mark McBride-Wright 43:59
What’s one myth about invention that you’d love to destroy?

Téa Phillips 44:09
I think it’s, I think it’s easier than you think. You don’t have to have it all figured out. You don’t have to say, Oh, this would work, because you can start small and just like, make one change and then Tinker, start tinkering and see what happens. So it’s easier than you think, and it’s more accessible.

Mark McBride-Wright 44:25
What’s a tool, material or piece of kit that you cannot live without when designing my ruler, coffee, quiet or chaos? What fuels your creativity?

Téa Phillips 44:39
Quiet, quiet, silence. Leave me alone. Let me think.

Mark McBride-Wright 44:44
What’s the most underrated skill for engineers entering entrepreneurship,

Téa Phillips 44:51
resilience, persistence, the ability to not quit until the problem is solved?

Mark McBride-Wright 44:57
What’s the most surprising thing you’ve learned? And about the medical device industry,

Téa Phillips 45:04
the huge barriers to entry, how expensive it is to build a medical device. It really shouldn’t be.

Mark McBride-Wright 45:10
And finally, what’s one word that describes your approach to innovation? Compassionate. Nice word. Nice word that sort of encapsulates everything, actually, that we’ve been talking about. Thank you so much tea. I’ve really enjoyed chatting with you. If people want to find out more about your work, more about metaflex, more about ATS innovations. How can they do that? And how should they get in touch.

Téa Phillips 45:41
Yeah, go straight to my website. Learn everything about metaflex. Metaflex glove.com M, E, T, A, F, L, E, X, glove.com I’m also on LinkedIn. You can find me there. Thea Phillips, also on Instagram. I’ve got a public profile. Thea dot s dot Phillips, and I need to post more, so find me there and tell me what you want to hear from me.

Mark McBride-Wright 46:10
Thank you so much. Tia, thank you.

Téa Phillips 46:13
Thank you for having me. Mark.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai