In this episode of The Safe Leader Podcast, Mark McBride-Wright sits down with Antonio Zappulla, CEO of the Thomson Reuters Foundation, to explore what it really means to lead with purpose in uncertain times. From his early days in a newsroom during 9/11 to navigating the challenges of running a global organisation through COVID-19, Antonio shares how decisiveness, curiosity, and a refusal to accept the status quo have shaped his leadership journey.
Antonio also opens up about his advocacy in the LGBTQ+ community, the importance of defending fundamental human rights, and his vision for a world where every passport holds the same power. This conversation is a masterclass in values-driven leadership, bold decision-making, and finding opportunity in crisis. If you’re ready to be inspired by a leader who takes action when it matters most, this episode is for you.
Read the Transcript
Mark McBride-Wright 0:00
Hello. Welcome to the next episode of the safe leader podcast. I am delighted to be joined today by Antonio zapula, who is the CEO of Thomson Reuters Foundation. So Antonio is an accomplished executive celebrated for his commitment to driving global strategic initiatives with a focus on independent media, access to the law and responsible business as the CEO of the Thomson Reuters Foundation, Antonio leads groundbreaking efforts to tackle some of the world’s most pressing socio economic challenges. A true innovator, Antonio has forged high impact partnerships across private, public and civil society sectors, leveraging his experience in strategic planning, organizational leadership and transformational change, he is also a passionate advocate for diversity and inclusion, particularly in the LGBTQ plus community. He served as the co chair of Pride at Work and as a board member of open for business and all out, recognized for his contributions to the public service and philanthropy. Antonio was knighted under the Order of Merit of the Republic of Italy, the country’s highest civilian honor. He’s a proud alumnus of Stanford University’s prestigious LEAD program, and brings a wealth of experience from a career that spans journalism, philanthropy and global leadership.
Mark McBride-Wright 1:31
Meeting you too. Finally, you and I have crossed paths virtually over the years. Been connected for a long time, but never actually met. And
Antonio Zappulla 1:44
here we are. Here we are.
Mark McBride-Wright 1:49
So thanks for agreeing to join the podcast. This, this this season. And so one of the things I like getting to know is what has helped shape the person that’s in front of us? You know what? What has driven your driven your decision making to get you to where, where you’re at now. So if we go back in time to the younger than you are now, Antonio, you know, you’ve got, you’ve had a career that spans journalism, philanthropy, global leadership, or what were some of the key moments that led you to, that you took to get to where you’re at now? What inspired you
Antonio Zappulla 2:33
look I think it’s if you believe in in any science behind the personality tests, right? I’m an E, N, T, j, A, which means that I’m curious. I’m an extrovert. I am pretty intuitive, and I have this ability of taking decisions quite quickly and and I think this is really I mean, I definitely see myself in this course, and I think my career in journalism has certainly shaped who I am as a person and as a professional. I started my career at the Italian news agency called ansa, which is the largest, is the biggest Italian news agency in the country, and I happened to be an intern during 911 and so basically worked more than 16 hours between September the 11th and the 12th, and I got a full time contract on September the 13th because I happened to be fluent in English. I was studying abroad. I was studying in the UK. At the time, I was only in Rome for my internship, and half of the newsroom at the time was on holiday. So my career in journalism, I think has shaped who I am as a professional for a number of reasons. I would say the first one is that it really exposed me to a global perspective. It made me really understand how events that happen somewhere in the world are intrinsically correlated to events that might happen in a completely different side of the world, in a completely different side of the world. So side of the world. So this correlation between global events, I think it’s something that I really value. It also forced me to take decisions really fast, because after working at ansa, I actually joined Bloomberg Television, and I worked at Bloomberg Television in London for over a decade, and I was first a TV presenter for their Italian channel, and then I became a producer and an executive producer for their US channel based in the UK. So you know, when you work on light TV, in light TV, you really have split seconds at times to take decisions, because you are live. So this ability to take really decisions fast is something that I definitely retained, and he also really allowed me to, especially working in the television industry, to get exposed, exposed to a wide range of different personalities. So the producers, the owner, talent, the technical talent, the ownership, and they all speak very different languages. They all have very different interests at play and being at the center. Sort of this ecosystem really gave me the opportunity to, you know, understand the different interests and understand how these different stakeholders were coming together. And so, you know, it gave me the ability to read the room quite quickly, and again, be able to take decisions in that context. I think the other critical moment, if you want looking back at the younger me, was definitely COVID Because I took over the role of CEO of the Thomson Reuters Foundation in April 2019, and then, essentially, shortly after, we had COVID and we had a lockdown, and I was running the organization essentially from home, when working from home was obviously not what we were used to do. And it really forced me to stay internally focused, shape the organization at a critical moment in time, really finding our strength, what we call our USP, hone in our programming, deliver our programming, and we definitely emerged as a result of that, as a stronger organization. So these two moments, I think, really people tell for me the beginning and the start of my career, and this big challenge that happened, you know, perhaps at the biggest moment in my career where, you know, I became CEO, when I became CEO of the organization, yeah, you’ve
Mark McBride-Wright 6:17
it sounds like two of, arguably Some of the most significant events that have happened in the last 10 to 15 years, 20 odd years, even you’ve been in the right place at the right time or been been able to have an expanded remit, and that’s helped help shape what you do. And do you think there’s a is that part of your personality as well? Though it’s a take, take opportunities as soon as they come, and run with them. You strike me as that kind of, that kind of guy,
Antonio Zappulla 6:50
definitely. I mean, I I’m not sitting on a chair waiting for the House to burn down, right? So I try to take initiative and make the most out of any situation. And so I think maybe this is a trait to my personality, and we’re definitely facing new challenges today. You know, the world is going in all sorts of directions, and so understanding who are your allies, what kind of agenda you want to continue to drive, what kind of leader you want to be, it’s something that I always ask myself on a daily basis. I don’t believe in the status quo. I think change is good. I think change presents opportunities, even when we cannot immediately see it. I mean, if, again, if you look back at what happened during COVID, we are, you know, we definitely work in a different way. We have a different approach to so many things. And I think again, that was a critical moment in society, but as a society, we responded really well, and we emerged stronger. Because I think we’re much more prepared for a new pandemic if it had to happen tomorrow. So I think moments of crisis can also generate huge opportunity if you if you can capitalize on
Mark McBride-Wright 7:55
it. So if we just go back to that moment, then when that change was thrust upon you, how are you would be, it’d be great to know, find out about what you’re doing now at Thomson Reuters, in terms of the org, the business itself, the organization, but it how, what have you retained from how you had to adapt in that in that adversity, in that challenge, when, when COVID happened.
Antonio Zappulla 8:18
I mean, look, during COVID, the challenges that I had to face were significant. They were internal and external. I had just became CEO, so I had a whole organization that knew me to a certain extent, because I had been the COO and the director of comms before, but the directors that now reporting to me so my executive leadership team, they were essentially my peers, and I wanted to establish a different type of leadership for the organization, and I had to do this whilst reframing the critical role of the mission of the organization in a fast, changing environment, you know, risking losing significant amount of funding, we develop a lot of initiatives on The ground. We were grounded, we couldn’t travel. So really the challenges were internal and external. So, you know, establishing my establishing my leadership with my peers, was one challenge, transforming the organization was another challenge, and doing this in an environment that was quite scary, quite frankly. So the challenges were many, and I think we emerged definitely stronger. I think, my takeaways, I think, if you want from from there, is that you know, if you believe in what you’re doing, if you think that you’re doing the right the right thing, if you’re if you believe that you’re taking the right decisions, just do it. And yes, you might make mistakes. But if the, if the if the spirit that’s that’s behind your decisions, if the intent, if the intent behind your decisions, is something that you can back up because it’s coherent with your values, and people can also understand that you’re not just doing it from a position of of leadership, for the sake of leadership, I believe very much in consensus building. So I think the. People that were for me could definitely tell that I was doing, I was taking the decisions that I was taking at the time for, you know, for the good of the organization. And so if you take your personal ego aside and you work for the benefit of the organization, and you make that very clear to your team, I think your team will back you up. That’s
Mark McBride-Wright 10:16
the idea of sort of servant leadership, isn’t it being there to help make a bigger purpose. And usually I find leaders that really lean into that are like yourself, where you’ve given some of your time as well to philanthropic or external you know, you’re not just in the day job. You’re also helping support other other other organizations as well with your leadership skills. So I was interested to just explore a bit further when you’ve worked with your advocacy in the LGBTQ plus community, and how is that been part of the arc of your development in your career?
Antonio Zappulla 10:56
I mean, that’s part of who I am. I mean, I’ve been openly gay man. I came out actually at the age of 21 when I was here in this country. I was living in Italy before. I mean, I was living in Italy until the age of 18. So, I mean, it’s my way of giving back to the community. And it happened also at a moment in time where we won at the time, many battles. You know, if you think about equal marriage, step child adoption, you know, decriminalization, a wave of decriminalization that happened in the past 15 years. I think it was also a good moment to to lend my voice to this cause. I think, you know, it’s that is my way of giving back to the community. And so I served on a number of boards. I think the key point for me is that I being a gay man is a component of who I am. I mean, it doesn’t define everything that I do. It’s a key component of who I am. But I see myself really like, like as an onion. I have many different layers, but this is clearly a layer that I wanted to peel, and, and, and, you know, and to definitely, and do definitely something with it, you know, I think perhaps one of the contribution was creating openly, which is an LGBT news and information platform that covers the many issues affecting the lives of LGBT people around the world. And I’m actually very proud of the work that the team is doing with openly, which is still going
Mark McBride-Wright 12:22
strong. And you know, we’re recording this in February 2025 where the LGBTQ community is facing significant headwind, challenges compared to, you know, what, what we’ve had thus far. So, where, where do you see? Where do you see things playing out now, you know, with the Trump administration coming in and executive orders coming out that are really regressive for the progress that our communities made, where how do we get through this look,
Antonio Zappulla 12:58
it’s, it’s, it’s difficult to tell because we only week four, I think, of of the new administration. And, you know, and it’s not really just about the Trump administration. There is a, you know, we’ve seen what’s happening in Uganda. We’ve seen what’s happening in other countries around the world when it comes to LGBT rights. I think, look wherever you are on the political spectrum, whether you are left, right or center when the fundamental rights of people are eroded, it’s never really good news for anyone. And I think the last century has reminded us of that and and I think we need to go back to what is the fundamental, you know, Declaration of Human Rights, which protects the rights of individuals. I think it’s, it’s it’s important that civil society comes together. And I don’t think that this is simply an LGBT rights plus issue. I think there is an overarching issue of shrinking civil society around the world and also in the Western world. And I think it’s really important that collaboration is it’s really at the center of everything that we do. And that goes way beyond the LGBT community. I’m thinking of climate advocates or climate journalists. I’m thinking of, again, organizations that campaign for for the rights of women, the rights of indigenous communities. I think it’s at this moment in time, it’s important that civil society sticks together and they, they try to find themes and where they can, you know that where they can actually come together to to make sure that the interest of the different communities are served. It’s difficult to say and to tell what’s what’s happening. You know, there are obviously rights that are enshrined in the in constitutions or legislation that has, that has already been passed. And I think, you know, every geography has their different challenges. So I wish I could tell you more, but again, it’s I don’t know how the world will look like in a couple of months or at the end of the year. My hope is that, again, fundamental rights of people, whether they are members of the LGBT community, whether. That they are indigenous people will be preserved and and and civil society will find solutions to defend those rights. And there are solutions, there are legal solutions to to defend those rights.
Mark McBride-Wright 15:12
Yeah, yeah. Very true. Very true. So I was in what was going through my mind. There was when you said about in different geographies, and things change and things evolve, and how you mentioned you came out as a young man, when in Italy, how? How are things now compared to how they were back then?
Antonio Zappulla 15:36
You mean in Italy, yeah, yeah, I think the situation has improved significantly. So I came out actually in the UK, so I wasn’t out when I was in Italy. But then again, I left pretty young. I left at the age of 19 to come to the UK and study. And I found a very different environment. These were, you know, the early 2000s were the years of, you know, again, we had equal marriage in civil partnerships in this country in 2004 so it was, I was really amazed about what I was seeing. And even before that, in Spain, Zapatero legalized gay marriage, even before the UK. So it was a different moment in time, and I felt really empowered. And also I was financially independent. I was working at Bloomberg at the time, so it was in a way easier for me to come out, because I was removed from from a context which was much more challenging at the time. I think every time I go back to Italy now, and I go every year, I can see how the environment has improved, especially for the younger generations. My mom is a teacher, and she retired just after COVID, and she did tell me that she had actually openly gay students in class, and she was a high school she’s a high she’s retired, but she was a high school teacher. Now that was completely unthinkable for me. I’m 46 but when I went to school, no one was gay, definitely not a school. And actually, more problematically, nobody was openly a member of the gay community, even in public life. I mean, the only, I think, LGBT role models that I could think were Dolce and Gabbana, or, you know, perhaps somebody else at a local level. But there wasn’t really, you know, an openly gay politician. There wasn’t an openly gay astronaut, there wasn’t an openly gay athlete. I mean, they were really, it was, it was really rare and so, and in fact, all the examples that I could point to were pretty negative. Were people living within my community, my city, that were actually marked for being gay. And so he gave me this sense of, you know, fear, like I definitely didn’t want to be associated with that reality. It has changed a lot, I think a result of a number of things. I think actually TV and media entertainment has definitely played a significant role in normalizing the conversation in Italy, but there are still some fundamental rights that are not theirs. For example, step child adoption is not legal if a gay couple, especially two women, have IVF to have a child, there is no possibility for the second parent to be on the birth certificate. Italy just criminalize as an international crime, surrogacy. There are still very little protections if you are a member of the gay community in order to be protected from evictions. There are still significant components of legislation that you know, I would hope would be, would be revised simply starting from again, you know, putting ideology aside, given that we’re living in a world where everything is so toxic and toxified, I think the starting point is that if I pay taxes as you do, why would I be at risk of being evicted simply for who I love and for who I am? That doesn’t make any sense, whether you are if you take religion out of the context, if you take ideology out of the context, from a practical, pragmatic level, I am a taxpayer, I should be having your same rights. And I think it’s a logical argument that, again, strips this conversation of all the different layers of toxicity. It’s just about access to rights.
Mark McBride-Wright 19:22
So how did you feel then, when you were announced as number one on the Financial Times outstanding executive lists one year,
Antonio Zappulla 19:32
I felt I had to call my parents, because I My parents have been amazing with me, like there was never been an issue about again. There was never resistance or opposition or, you know, they were very welcoming. They met my partner at the time. But every time I would go home until that moment, it was always Antonio and his friend in, you know, when talking to their friends, and I think I remember I called my. My parents, because the Italian news Rai, which is the Italian equivalent of the BBC, did a story when, when the index came out, and I told my parents, I’m doing this interview, and the piece is going to air at, you know, news at 10 in Italy. So if you want to watch it, watch it. If you don’t want to watch it, don’t watch it. But it’s going to be airing and, and and. And I framed it this way because I didn’t want this to be a debate or a conversation. I wanted to inform them of the fact that was doing it. And actually, my dad was like, Oh, this is great. We should tell everybody. And from that moment onwards, it was no longer Antonio and his friend, it was Antonio and his partner, and they send the link to everybody that they know. So it’s, it’s, it was a really nice moment for me. But again, I do reflect on the fact that, you know, these moments shouldn’t be the result of nice achievements. Of course, it’s nice to be on a on a fancy list, on the FT, but there are people that don’t get on a fancy list of the FT, and they are equally valuable because of the work that they’re doing in their communities, or just the fact that they simply are they want to live their lives for who they are and who they love. And so I feel privileged of you know about the fact that I had this career, I had these acknowledgements that allowed me to come out, perhaps in an easier way than others, and I tend, I try to do my best not to forget that
Mark McBride-Wright 21:24
and coming full circle that allows you to be an open and visible role model to other young Italians, where, when you only had the Dolce and gabbanas or the other maybe more negative local role models, you know you there’s now this list of people, and you’re, you’re there as one of them who people can look up to and aspire to. I think they’re important. Those those lists, at times, they can feel a little bit performative sometimes, but they, I
Antonio Zappulla 21:59
agree, I agree with you. I mean, it’s they are important because they normalize the conversation. They are absolutely they’re absolutely important. They do show you know people within the community that it’s you know you don’t risk being you know that you can be, you can, you can live your professional life in full and regardless of who you are and who you love, and I think I absolutely agree with you. I think they do serve a significant purpose. So
Mark McBride-Wright 22:28
tell tell me a bit more about the Thomas Reuters Foundation, then you know what? Thompson Reuters? Thompson Reuters Foundation,
Antonio Zappulla 22:35
I tell you a secret. Every time we receive a CV that says Thomas Reuters, it goes straight in the bin. Is the easiest selection process. Well,
Mark McBride-Wright 22:43
I’m not applying for any jobs. Yes, Thompson, tell me. Tell me a bit more about it. And what, what? What live projects to the extent that you’re able to, you know, appreciate some might be confidential, but what? What’s under your focus at the moment,
Antonio Zappulla 23:01
the organization has three areas of focus that we work to. Our mission is to strengthen free, fair and informed societies, and we do this through a combination of media legal initiatives and data intelligence. What does that practically means is that we work to foster the resilience of independent media. So we work with 1000s of journalists every year for capacity building, training, financial support. At the moment, we’re doing tons of work on AI implementation in smaller newsrooms in Sub Saharan Africa, for example, we’re doing research on AI polling our community of more than 15,000 journalists. We are doing capacity building work in Ukraine. I mean, our work, it’s mostly focused around the global majority and and in Eastern Europe. This the second pillar of our work is called access to the law. And we run the largest pro bono legal platform that provides free legal assistance to NGOs and social enterprises and journalists around the world. And that’s a massive portfolio of work. Just to give you a sense, we’ve put into this work about one and a half million pounds of our own core funding every year, but we are able to leverage about $45 million of legal, pro bono legal support every year. So it’s massive. Is the large, largest pro bono legal network, over 100,000 lawyers in the network, 6000 NGOs, hundreds of journalists, and it’s very global, and we provide free legal assistance in the form of operating support. So an NGO might come to us because they need to draft a contract, or they need to register in another jurisdiction, or they need to you know, essentially anything that you would pay a lawyer for, they come to us and we connect them with lawyers that were pro bono. But we also, critically do a lot of legal research, which oftentimes is cross jurisdictional. So encompasses multiple jurisdictions. It brings together multiple lawyers that work from. People jurisdictions, and it allows those NGOs to do advocacy in a much more powerful way, because the advocacy is, then, if you want, powered by legal arguments. And so oftentimes, this, this, this decent research, contributes to a changing policy on the ground. And we have really dozens of examples of where our legal research has helped NGOs in changing policy around the world. And then the third pillar of our work is called responsible business. And here we work with hundreds of companies around the world to do no harm. And we have two sub pillars, if you want sub pillars of our work, one is centered around workforce and supply chain, and the second, which is the newest portfolio of work, is really related to ethical corporate adoption of AI,
Mark McBride-Wright 25:55
wow, that’s really interesting. We’re
Antonio Zappulla 25:57
very busy. We are constantly busy and constantly busy and constantly growing and evolving. Which is great, which is exciting. How do,
Mark McBride-Wright 26:06
how do you generate your revenue? Is as a foundation, is it donations? Is it philanthropic sources? Is it do you do partnerships with corporates?
Antonio Zappulla 26:17
It’s, it’s all of the above. I think the only thing we don’t really receive is donations. I mean, our first of all, we’re not a grant making foundation, so we, we, we essentially run programs that are free for the beneficiaries, but we don’t give grants. So if you write to me and say, there is this great local projects that needs funding, can you fund us? And I’ll have to say no, because we’re not a grant making foundation, but we do fund our beneficiaries through the programs that we develop and run and fundraise for. Obviously, our major donor is Thomson Reuters, and that’s, you know, we they’ve been funding us from since 1983 and then we also have other donors. We have institutional donors, so we work with governments around the world. We have corporate donors that you know support mostly our corporate responsibilities, our responsible business portfolio. We have foundations that fund parts of our work. So it’s a very diverse mix of stakeholders, which is, actually is difficult to manage because obviously you have multiple stakeholders, but at the same time, it’s actually really good, because it makes the organization much more resilient. And so we’re much more resilient from a financial perspective, in an environment that can be quite schizophrenic at times. When it comes to funding,
Mark McBride-Wright 27:36
you’re less exposed to like just a single source of income. One thing that caught my ear there was in your responsible business, pillar, sub pillar, do no harm. Can you just talk us through that? That’s very that sounds to me like what you know the organizations we work with when we talk about safety strategies and the ability for people to go to work and go home safely without fear of, you know, being injured or what have you you know, bit that that that really does drive the culture, and a lot of businesses, you know, do no harm. So just interested in the work that you do through the responsible business part. And you also mentioned there that corporates tend to be interested in that. So I think if you could just expand on that a bit further, I think some of our listeners would be, would be keen to hear more on that show.
Antonio Zappulla 28:29
And by the way, if you ever want to dig more into what I’m saying, just go on our website. Is easy to remember, is trust.org, and you’ll find, you know, definitely a much more detailed accounts of everything that I, that I’m, that I’m discussing here. So our responsible business portfolio has, as I said, two sub pillars. The first one is focused on workforce. The second one is work is focused on AI adoption that the first one is really looking at how companies are essentially implementing, you know, how the workforce of a company looks like. So they voluntarily disclose to us a number of indicators that give us a sense of, you know, the minimum pay levels that they offer to the workforce and multiple issues around in, really supply chain and direct operations. And it’s quite a large program. We collect data that really represents over 8 million workers worldwide, and we have over 100 companies that disclose through voluntarily disclose through our platform that is called Workforce Disclosure Initiative, also known as WDI. And WDI has companies in that disclose voluntarily these indicators that are worth more than $8 trillion in market cap, and then this data is given to investors. They use this data to make responsible investment decisions as they wish, and there is about $10 trillion of asset under management on the other side of the equation. So again, we are the broker between the companies that want to disclose. Volunt. Entirely how they are, you know what they’re doing in their operations, in terms of supply chain, and then give this data to investors. And obviously, investors have a massive interest in making sure that they understand the materiality of these issues. I mean, if you think about all the conversations that we’ve been having in the past couple of years about, you know, slavery in supply chain, or, you know, abusive working conditions. And thinking of Rana Plaza, the conversation around the one pound t shirt, and who makes you a t shirt? I mean, that is exactly the type of conversation we are having with both the companies and the investors. Now the newest portfolio that we actually launched in October our trust conference. It’s a partnership with the UN is a partnership with UNESCO. UNESCO has done a lot of work in developing a framework for ethical adoption of AI, and mostly working with corporates and governments. And now we are really focusing on governments, sorry, on companies, and we are asking companies to again, fill in another voluntary questionnaire that will allow to disclose how they are embedding AI technology in their products, services and operations. So we’re not talking here about producers of AI tools. We’re talking about implementers of AI tools. So we’re really shifting the conversation from the way this AI technology is being produced to the way this AI tools are actually being adopted. And adoption is obviously, as you know, going really fast, because every company is really trying to make sense of how to adopt this technology, to be ahead of the game, to beat their competitors. We want to make sure that this conversation is done because obviously we believe in the power of AI, in innovating and unlocking new potential. But at the same time, we want to make sure that it does no harm. And so we’re asking questions such as, Do you have an AI strategy, who is in charge legally through the life cycle of the AI tool? Are you looking at upskilling or re skilling your workers? Do you have any remediation policies, any issues risks related to data privacy, data bias, data provenance. We believe that the majority of especially SMEs, have very, very little clue about any of these issues, and so the idea is to present them with a questionnaire that they can voluntarily decide to fill in, not to fill in, and as much as they would like to fill in, but that will essentially become a Northern Star for CEOs, CTOs general councils any days, who, by the way, have obviously fiduciary responsibility when it comes to these companies, and really bring some clarity in the on how they are implementing these technologies. And if we do this right, there’s a couple of winning, a couple of winners at the end of it, first of all, the companies will be doing no harm, but at the same time, they will really protect themselves from liabilities and really mitigating risk and really having clarity in the process, which they desperately need to have right now. The second winners, the consumers, because by having embarked on these processes, and by disclosing this information, consumers will know which companies are taking AI tools in a certain direction or not, and will be able to trust you know and make informed decisions with their money, and really utilize and have agencies when they made, you know, when they buy, when they vote with their money, then they obviously this invest the investor community, which will soon understand that this that AI adoption is critical when it comes again, to the issue of materiality that they need to assess when it comes to their investment portfolios. And then we believe that this data set can also be very, very useful for governments that need to implement policies and by understanding how what’s working and what’s not working in implementation of AI, they will well, they will be able to develop better policies. So the goal is to create the world’s largest database on corporate AI adoption and to make sure that this becomes a fundamental pillar, if you want, in an ecosystem of trust in AI as a family. Good.
Mark McBride-Wright 34:03
Wow, that’s no small feat. Then really, really ambitious. And that, you know, the Paris Summit’s been taking place this week as well on AI. So all this is so, so relevant. I was in London last week when the Queen Elizabeth prize got announced. It’s essentially the Nobel Prize for engineering and the technology that well, the group that won it this year were the people who essentially helped enable AI to come into existence. So yeah, machine learning and algorithms and what have you. So, yeah, I think the work that you’re doing then is, is, is quite pioneering, and is going to be really needed to underpin proper global adoption on a trust basis, not, not too far in the future, actually, at the pace that things
Antonio Zappulla 34:55
are moving, the timing is now we need to get going absolutely.
Mark McBride-Wright 34:59
Exactly, absolutely. Okay. I want to go on to the quick fire questions. If you wouldn’t mind, sure. So what’s the last book you read?
Antonio Zappulla 35:11
The last book I read is the tech coup by Marietta Shaki, and he’s a fantastic book on the role of technology in society.
Mark McBride-Wright 35:20
What’s the one piece of advice that you live by
Antonio Zappulla 35:24
everything as an elevator has an innovate an elevator pitch, if you can tell a story, it’s not going to happen.
Mark McBride-Wright 35:32
Who inspires you most?
Antonio Zappulla 35:35
Nelson Mandela and Ruth Bader. Ginsburg,
Mark McBride-Wright 35:39
a favorite place you visited, Rio
Antonio Zappulla 35:42
de Janeiro,
Mark McBride-Wright 35:44
coffee or tea, 100% cafe. What’s your go to? Productivity? Tip,
Antonio Zappulla 35:51
sleep, sleep when you need to sleep.
Mark McBride-Wright 35:56
That’s a good one. What’s one thing that you cannot live without?
Antonio Zappulla 36:01
Very pragmatically, I would say the Wi Fi and the internet. I just can’t live without them.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:09
If you weren’t in this career you’re doing now, what would you be doing?
Antonio Zappulla 36:13
I’d be traveling the world. I love traveling the world.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:17
What’s your biggest achievement so far?
Antonio Zappulla 36:21
I rebuilt a house in Sicily, where I’m from, and I love it.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:28
And finally, what’s one thing you’d like to see change in the world?
Antonio Zappulla 36:34
It’s, it’s a dream of mine that I wish every passport was equally powerful.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:41
That’s, that’s, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. Well, thank you very much for your time, for everyone listening, if they want to find out more about you, about your work, about the foundation, where, where should they go?
Antonio Zappulla 37:00
Trust.org. Is our website, and you’ll find tons of information around our work. You can also check trust conference.com that’s the website of our annual event, which, by the way, is a free event, and it’s also on YouTube. So trust conference has also its YouTube page. Another website you want to check out is context dot news, which is our news website. And context on news is also on YouTube, so but I would say trust.org is the portal, the gateway that takes you to everything, the ecosystem of TRF, as we call it, internally,
Mark McBride-Wright 37:32
brilliant. Well, we will put that in the show notes as well so people can access this. Antonio, thank you so much. Really enjoyed it pleasure
E021: The Power of Speaking Up and Building a Fair Society
Podcast Description
Read the Transcript
Mark McBride-Wright 0:00
Hello. Welcome to the next episode of the safe leader podcast. I am delighted to be joined today by Antonio zapula, who is the CEO of Thomson Reuters Foundation. So Antonio is an accomplished executive celebrated for his commitment to driving global strategic initiatives with a focus on independent media, access to the law and responsible business as the CEO of the Thomson Reuters Foundation, Antonio leads groundbreaking efforts to tackle some of the world’s most pressing socio economic challenges. A true innovator, Antonio has forged high impact partnerships across private, public and civil society sectors, leveraging his experience in strategic planning, organizational leadership and transformational change, he is also a passionate advocate for diversity and inclusion, particularly in the LGBTQ plus community. He served as the co chair of Pride at Work and as a board member of open for business and all out, recognized for his contributions to the public service and philanthropy. Antonio was knighted under the Order of Merit of the Republic of Italy, the country’s highest civilian honor. He’s a proud alumnus of Stanford University’s prestigious LEAD program, and brings a wealth of experience from a career that spans journalism, philanthropy and global leadership.
Antonio Zappulla 1:27
Antonio, welcome, thank you. Mark, nice. Meeting you. Nice.
Mark McBride-Wright 1:31
Meeting you too. Finally, you and I have crossed paths virtually over the years. Been connected for a long time, but never actually met. And
Antonio Zappulla 1:44
here we are. Here we are.
Mark McBride-Wright 1:49
So thanks for agreeing to join the podcast. This, this this season. And so one of the things I like getting to know is what has helped shape the person that’s in front of us? You know what? What has driven your driven your decision making to get you to where, where you’re at now. So if we go back in time to the younger than you are now, Antonio, you know, you’ve got, you’ve had a career that spans journalism, philanthropy, global leadership, or what were some of the key moments that led you to, that you took to get to where you’re at now? What inspired you
Antonio Zappulla 2:33
look I think it’s if you believe in in any science behind the personality tests, right? I’m an E, N, T, j, A, which means that I’m curious. I’m an extrovert. I am pretty intuitive, and I have this ability of taking decisions quite quickly and and I think this is really I mean, I definitely see myself in this course, and I think my career in journalism has certainly shaped who I am as a person and as a professional. I started my career at the Italian news agency called ansa, which is the largest, is the biggest Italian news agency in the country, and I happened to be an intern during 911 and so basically worked more than 16 hours between September the 11th and the 12th, and I got a full time contract on September the 13th because I happened to be fluent in English. I was studying abroad. I was studying in the UK. At the time, I was only in Rome for my internship, and half of the newsroom at the time was on holiday. So my career in journalism, I think has shaped who I am as a professional for a number of reasons. I would say the first one is that it really exposed me to a global perspective. It made me really understand how events that happen somewhere in the world are intrinsically correlated to events that might happen in a completely different side of the world, in a completely different side of the world. So side of the world. So this correlation between global events, I think it’s something that I really value. It also forced me to take decisions really fast, because after working at ansa, I actually joined Bloomberg Television, and I worked at Bloomberg Television in London for over a decade, and I was first a TV presenter for their Italian channel, and then I became a producer and an executive producer for their US channel based in the UK. So you know, when you work on light TV, in light TV, you really have split seconds at times to take decisions, because you are live. So this ability to take really decisions fast is something that I definitely retained, and he also really allowed me to, especially working in the television industry, to get exposed, exposed to a wide range of different personalities. So the producers, the owner, talent, the technical talent, the ownership, and they all speak very different languages. They all have very different interests at play and being at the center. Sort of this ecosystem really gave me the opportunity to, you know, understand the different interests and understand how these different stakeholders were coming together. And so, you know, it gave me the ability to read the room quite quickly, and again, be able to take decisions in that context. I think the other critical moment, if you want looking back at the younger me, was definitely COVID Because I took over the role of CEO of the Thomson Reuters Foundation in April 2019, and then, essentially, shortly after, we had COVID and we had a lockdown, and I was running the organization essentially from home, when working from home was obviously not what we were used to do. And it really forced me to stay internally focused, shape the organization at a critical moment in time, really finding our strength, what we call our USP, hone in our programming, deliver our programming, and we definitely emerged as a result of that, as a stronger organization. So these two moments, I think, really people tell for me the beginning and the start of my career, and this big challenge that happened, you know, perhaps at the biggest moment in my career where, you know, I became CEO, when I became CEO of the organization, yeah, you’ve
Mark McBride-Wright 6:17
it sounds like two of, arguably Some of the most significant events that have happened in the last 10 to 15 years, 20 odd years, even you’ve been in the right place at the right time or been been able to have an expanded remit, and that’s helped help shape what you do. And do you think there’s a is that part of your personality as well? Though it’s a take, take opportunities as soon as they come, and run with them. You strike me as that kind of, that kind of guy,
Antonio Zappulla 6:50
definitely. I mean, I I’m not sitting on a chair waiting for the House to burn down, right? So I try to take initiative and make the most out of any situation. And so I think maybe this is a trait to my personality, and we’re definitely facing new challenges today. You know, the world is going in all sorts of directions, and so understanding who are your allies, what kind of agenda you want to continue to drive, what kind of leader you want to be, it’s something that I always ask myself on a daily basis. I don’t believe in the status quo. I think change is good. I think change presents opportunities, even when we cannot immediately see it. I mean, if, again, if you look back at what happened during COVID, we are, you know, we definitely work in a different way. We have a different approach to so many things. And I think again, that was a critical moment in society, but as a society, we responded really well, and we emerged stronger. Because I think we’re much more prepared for a new pandemic if it had to happen tomorrow. So I think moments of crisis can also generate huge opportunity if you if you can capitalize on
Mark McBride-Wright 7:55
it. So if we just go back to that moment, then when that change was thrust upon you, how are you would be, it’d be great to know, find out about what you’re doing now at Thomson Reuters, in terms of the org, the business itself, the organization, but it how, what have you retained from how you had to adapt in that in that adversity, in that challenge, when, when COVID happened.
Antonio Zappulla 8:18
I mean, look, during COVID, the challenges that I had to face were significant. They were internal and external. I had just became CEO, so I had a whole organization that knew me to a certain extent, because I had been the COO and the director of comms before, but the directors that now reporting to me so my executive leadership team, they were essentially my peers, and I wanted to establish a different type of leadership for the organization, and I had to do this whilst reframing the critical role of the mission of the organization in a fast, changing environment, you know, risking losing significant amount of funding, we develop a lot of initiatives on The ground. We were grounded, we couldn’t travel. So really the challenges were internal and external. So, you know, establishing my establishing my leadership with my peers, was one challenge, transforming the organization was another challenge, and doing this in an environment that was quite scary, quite frankly. So the challenges were many, and I think we emerged definitely stronger. I think, my takeaways, I think, if you want from from there, is that you know, if you believe in what you’re doing, if you think that you’re doing the right the right thing, if you’re if you believe that you’re taking the right decisions, just do it. And yes, you might make mistakes. But if the, if the if the spirit that’s that’s behind your decisions, if the intent, if the intent behind your decisions, is something that you can back up because it’s coherent with your values, and people can also understand that you’re not just doing it from a position of of leadership, for the sake of leadership, I believe very much in consensus building. So I think the. People that were for me could definitely tell that I was doing, I was taking the decisions that I was taking at the time for, you know, for the good of the organization. And so if you take your personal ego aside and you work for the benefit of the organization, and you make that very clear to your team, I think your team will back you up. That’s
Mark McBride-Wright 10:16
the idea of sort of servant leadership, isn’t it being there to help make a bigger purpose. And usually I find leaders that really lean into that are like yourself, where you’ve given some of your time as well to philanthropic or external you know, you’re not just in the day job. You’re also helping support other other other organizations as well with your leadership skills. So I was interested to just explore a bit further when you’ve worked with your advocacy in the LGBTQ plus community, and how is that been part of the arc of your development in your career?
Antonio Zappulla 10:56
I mean, that’s part of who I am. I mean, I’ve been openly gay man. I came out actually at the age of 21 when I was here in this country. I was living in Italy before. I mean, I was living in Italy until the age of 18. So, I mean, it’s my way of giving back to the community. And it happened also at a moment in time where we won at the time, many battles. You know, if you think about equal marriage, step child adoption, you know, decriminalization, a wave of decriminalization that happened in the past 15 years. I think it was also a good moment to to lend my voice to this cause. I think, you know, it’s that is my way of giving back to the community. And so I served on a number of boards. I think the key point for me is that I being a gay man is a component of who I am. I mean, it doesn’t define everything that I do. It’s a key component of who I am. But I see myself really like, like as an onion. I have many different layers, but this is clearly a layer that I wanted to peel, and, and, and, you know, and to definitely, and do definitely something with it, you know, I think perhaps one of the contribution was creating openly, which is an LGBT news and information platform that covers the many issues affecting the lives of LGBT people around the world. And I’m actually very proud of the work that the team is doing with openly, which is still going
Mark McBride-Wright 12:22
strong. And you know, we’re recording this in February 2025 where the LGBTQ community is facing significant headwind, challenges compared to, you know, what, what we’ve had thus far. So, where, where do you see? Where do you see things playing out now, you know, with the Trump administration coming in and executive orders coming out that are really regressive for the progress that our communities made, where how do we get through this look,
Antonio Zappulla 12:58
it’s, it’s, it’s difficult to tell because we only week four, I think, of of the new administration. And, you know, and it’s not really just about the Trump administration. There is a, you know, we’ve seen what’s happening in Uganda. We’ve seen what’s happening in other countries around the world when it comes to LGBT rights. I think, look wherever you are on the political spectrum, whether you are left, right or center when the fundamental rights of people are eroded, it’s never really good news for anyone. And I think the last century has reminded us of that and and I think we need to go back to what is the fundamental, you know, Declaration of Human Rights, which protects the rights of individuals. I think it’s, it’s it’s important that civil society comes together. And I don’t think that this is simply an LGBT rights plus issue. I think there is an overarching issue of shrinking civil society around the world and also in the Western world. And I think it’s really important that collaboration is it’s really at the center of everything that we do. And that goes way beyond the LGBT community. I’m thinking of climate advocates or climate journalists. I’m thinking of, again, organizations that campaign for for the rights of women, the rights of indigenous communities. I think it’s at this moment in time, it’s important that civil society sticks together and they, they try to find themes and where they can, you know that where they can actually come together to to make sure that the interest of the different communities are served. It’s difficult to say and to tell what’s what’s happening. You know, there are obviously rights that are enshrined in the in constitutions or legislation that has, that has already been passed. And I think, you know, every geography has their different challenges. So I wish I could tell you more, but again, it’s I don’t know how the world will look like in a couple of months or at the end of the year. My hope is that, again, fundamental rights of people, whether they are members of the LGBT community, whether. That they are indigenous people will be preserved and and and civil society will find solutions to defend those rights. And there are solutions, there are legal solutions to to defend those rights.
Mark McBride-Wright 15:12
Yeah, yeah. Very true. Very true. So I was in what was going through my mind. There was when you said about in different geographies, and things change and things evolve, and how you mentioned you came out as a young man, when in Italy, how? How are things now compared to how they were back then?
Antonio Zappulla 15:36
You mean in Italy, yeah, yeah, I think the situation has improved significantly. So I came out actually in the UK, so I wasn’t out when I was in Italy. But then again, I left pretty young. I left at the age of 19 to come to the UK and study. And I found a very different environment. These were, you know, the early 2000s were the years of, you know, again, we had equal marriage in civil partnerships in this country in 2004 so it was, I was really amazed about what I was seeing. And even before that, in Spain, Zapatero legalized gay marriage, even before the UK. So it was a different moment in time, and I felt really empowered. And also I was financially independent. I was working at Bloomberg at the time, so it was in a way easier for me to come out, because I was removed from from a context which was much more challenging at the time. I think every time I go back to Italy now, and I go every year, I can see how the environment has improved, especially for the younger generations. My mom is a teacher, and she retired just after COVID, and she did tell me that she had actually openly gay students in class, and she was a high school she’s a high she’s retired, but she was a high school teacher. Now that was completely unthinkable for me. I’m 46 but when I went to school, no one was gay, definitely not a school. And actually, more problematically, nobody was openly a member of the gay community, even in public life. I mean, the only, I think, LGBT role models that I could think were Dolce and Gabbana, or, you know, perhaps somebody else at a local level. But there wasn’t really, you know, an openly gay politician. There wasn’t an openly gay astronaut, there wasn’t an openly gay athlete. I mean, they were really, it was, it was really rare and so, and in fact, all the examples that I could point to were pretty negative. Were people living within my community, my city, that were actually marked for being gay. And so he gave me this sense of, you know, fear, like I definitely didn’t want to be associated with that reality. It has changed a lot, I think a result of a number of things. I think actually TV and media entertainment has definitely played a significant role in normalizing the conversation in Italy, but there are still some fundamental rights that are not theirs. For example, step child adoption is not legal if a gay couple, especially two women, have IVF to have a child, there is no possibility for the second parent to be on the birth certificate. Italy just criminalize as an international crime, surrogacy. There are still very little protections if you are a member of the gay community in order to be protected from evictions. There are still significant components of legislation that you know, I would hope would be, would be revised simply starting from again, you know, putting ideology aside, given that we’re living in a world where everything is so toxic and toxified, I think the starting point is that if I pay taxes as you do, why would I be at risk of being evicted simply for who I love and for who I am? That doesn’t make any sense, whether you are if you take religion out of the context, if you take ideology out of the context, from a practical, pragmatic level, I am a taxpayer, I should be having your same rights. And I think it’s a logical argument that, again, strips this conversation of all the different layers of toxicity. It’s just about access to rights.
Mark McBride-Wright 19:22
So how did you feel then, when you were announced as number one on the Financial Times outstanding executive lists one year,
Antonio Zappulla 19:32
I felt I had to call my parents, because I My parents have been amazing with me, like there was never been an issue about again. There was never resistance or opposition or, you know, they were very welcoming. They met my partner at the time. But every time I would go home until that moment, it was always Antonio and his friend in, you know, when talking to their friends, and I think I remember I called my. My parents, because the Italian news Rai, which is the Italian equivalent of the BBC, did a story when, when the index came out, and I told my parents, I’m doing this interview, and the piece is going to air at, you know, news at 10 in Italy. So if you want to watch it, watch it. If you don’t want to watch it, don’t watch it. But it’s going to be airing and, and and. And I framed it this way because I didn’t want this to be a debate or a conversation. I wanted to inform them of the fact that was doing it. And actually, my dad was like, Oh, this is great. We should tell everybody. And from that moment onwards, it was no longer Antonio and his friend, it was Antonio and his partner, and they send the link to everybody that they know. So it’s, it’s, it was a really nice moment for me. But again, I do reflect on the fact that, you know, these moments shouldn’t be the result of nice achievements. Of course, it’s nice to be on a on a fancy list, on the FT, but there are people that don’t get on a fancy list of the FT, and they are equally valuable because of the work that they’re doing in their communities, or just the fact that they simply are they want to live their lives for who they are and who they love. And so I feel privileged of you know about the fact that I had this career, I had these acknowledgements that allowed me to come out, perhaps in an easier way than others, and I tend, I try to do my best not to forget that
Mark McBride-Wright 21:24
and coming full circle that allows you to be an open and visible role model to other young Italians, where, when you only had the Dolce and gabbanas or the other maybe more negative local role models, you know you there’s now this list of people, and you’re, you’re there as one of them who people can look up to and aspire to. I think they’re important. Those those lists, at times, they can feel a little bit performative sometimes, but they, I
Antonio Zappulla 21:59
agree, I agree with you. I mean, it’s they are important because they normalize the conversation. They are absolutely they’re absolutely important. They do show you know people within the community that it’s you know you don’t risk being you know that you can be, you can, you can live your professional life in full and regardless of who you are and who you love, and I think I absolutely agree with you. I think they do serve a significant purpose. So
Mark McBride-Wright 22:28
tell tell me a bit more about the Thomas Reuters Foundation, then you know what? Thompson Reuters? Thompson Reuters Foundation,
Antonio Zappulla 22:35
I tell you a secret. Every time we receive a CV that says Thomas Reuters, it goes straight in the bin. Is the easiest selection process. Well,
Mark McBride-Wright 22:43
I’m not applying for any jobs. Yes, Thompson, tell me. Tell me a bit more about it. And what, what? What live projects to the extent that you’re able to, you know, appreciate some might be confidential, but what? What’s under your focus at the moment,
Antonio Zappulla 23:01
the organization has three areas of focus that we work to. Our mission is to strengthen free, fair and informed societies, and we do this through a combination of media legal initiatives and data intelligence. What does that practically means is that we work to foster the resilience of independent media. So we work with 1000s of journalists every year for capacity building, training, financial support. At the moment, we’re doing tons of work on AI implementation in smaller newsrooms in Sub Saharan Africa, for example, we’re doing research on AI polling our community of more than 15,000 journalists. We are doing capacity building work in Ukraine. I mean, our work, it’s mostly focused around the global majority and and in Eastern Europe. This the second pillar of our work is called access to the law. And we run the largest pro bono legal platform that provides free legal assistance to NGOs and social enterprises and journalists around the world. And that’s a massive portfolio of work. Just to give you a sense, we’ve put into this work about one and a half million pounds of our own core funding every year, but we are able to leverage about $45 million of legal, pro bono legal support every year. So it’s massive. Is the large, largest pro bono legal network, over 100,000 lawyers in the network, 6000 NGOs, hundreds of journalists, and it’s very global, and we provide free legal assistance in the form of operating support. So an NGO might come to us because they need to draft a contract, or they need to register in another jurisdiction, or they need to you know, essentially anything that you would pay a lawyer for, they come to us and we connect them with lawyers that were pro bono. But we also, critically do a lot of legal research, which oftentimes is cross jurisdictional. So encompasses multiple jurisdictions. It brings together multiple lawyers that work from. People jurisdictions, and it allows those NGOs to do advocacy in a much more powerful way, because the advocacy is, then, if you want, powered by legal arguments. And so oftentimes, this, this, this decent research, contributes to a changing policy on the ground. And we have really dozens of examples of where our legal research has helped NGOs in changing policy around the world. And then the third pillar of our work is called responsible business. And here we work with hundreds of companies around the world to do no harm. And we have two sub pillars, if you want sub pillars of our work, one is centered around workforce and supply chain, and the second, which is the newest portfolio of work, is really related to ethical corporate adoption of AI,
Mark McBride-Wright 25:55
wow, that’s really interesting. We’re
Antonio Zappulla 25:57
very busy. We are constantly busy and constantly busy and constantly growing and evolving. Which is great, which is exciting. How do,
Mark McBride-Wright 26:06
how do you generate your revenue? Is as a foundation, is it donations? Is it philanthropic sources? Is it do you do partnerships with corporates?
Antonio Zappulla 26:17
It’s, it’s all of the above. I think the only thing we don’t really receive is donations. I mean, our first of all, we’re not a grant making foundation, so we, we, we essentially run programs that are free for the beneficiaries, but we don’t give grants. So if you write to me and say, there is this great local projects that needs funding, can you fund us? And I’ll have to say no, because we’re not a grant making foundation, but we do fund our beneficiaries through the programs that we develop and run and fundraise for. Obviously, our major donor is Thomson Reuters, and that’s, you know, we they’ve been funding us from since 1983 and then we also have other donors. We have institutional donors, so we work with governments around the world. We have corporate donors that you know support mostly our corporate responsibilities, our responsible business portfolio. We have foundations that fund parts of our work. So it’s a very diverse mix of stakeholders, which is, actually is difficult to manage because obviously you have multiple stakeholders, but at the same time, it’s actually really good, because it makes the organization much more resilient. And so we’re much more resilient from a financial perspective, in an environment that can be quite schizophrenic at times. When it comes to funding,
Mark McBride-Wright 27:36
you’re less exposed to like just a single source of income. One thing that caught my ear there was in your responsible business, pillar, sub pillar, do no harm. Can you just talk us through that? That’s very that sounds to me like what you know the organizations we work with when we talk about safety strategies and the ability for people to go to work and go home safely without fear of, you know, being injured or what have you you know, bit that that that really does drive the culture, and a lot of businesses, you know, do no harm. So just interested in the work that you do through the responsible business part. And you also mentioned there that corporates tend to be interested in that. So I think if you could just expand on that a bit further, I think some of our listeners would be, would be keen to hear more on that show.
Antonio Zappulla 28:29
And by the way, if you ever want to dig more into what I’m saying, just go on our website. Is easy to remember, is trust.org, and you’ll find, you know, definitely a much more detailed accounts of everything that I, that I’m, that I’m discussing here. So our responsible business portfolio has, as I said, two sub pillars. The first one is focused on workforce. The second one is work is focused on AI adoption that the first one is really looking at how companies are essentially implementing, you know, how the workforce of a company looks like. So they voluntarily disclose to us a number of indicators that give us a sense of, you know, the minimum pay levels that they offer to the workforce and multiple issues around in, really supply chain and direct operations. And it’s quite a large program. We collect data that really represents over 8 million workers worldwide, and we have over 100 companies that disclose through voluntarily disclose through our platform that is called Workforce Disclosure Initiative, also known as WDI. And WDI has companies in that disclose voluntarily these indicators that are worth more than $8 trillion in market cap, and then this data is given to investors. They use this data to make responsible investment decisions as they wish, and there is about $10 trillion of asset under management on the other side of the equation. So again, we are the broker between the companies that want to disclose. Volunt. Entirely how they are, you know what they’re doing in their operations, in terms of supply chain, and then give this data to investors. And obviously, investors have a massive interest in making sure that they understand the materiality of these issues. I mean, if you think about all the conversations that we’ve been having in the past couple of years about, you know, slavery in supply chain, or, you know, abusive working conditions. And thinking of Rana Plaza, the conversation around the one pound t shirt, and who makes you a t shirt? I mean, that is exactly the type of conversation we are having with both the companies and the investors. Now the newest portfolio that we actually launched in October our trust conference. It’s a partnership with the UN is a partnership with UNESCO. UNESCO has done a lot of work in developing a framework for ethical adoption of AI, and mostly working with corporates and governments. And now we are really focusing on governments, sorry, on companies, and we are asking companies to again, fill in another voluntary questionnaire that will allow to disclose how they are embedding AI technology in their products, services and operations. So we’re not talking here about producers of AI tools. We’re talking about implementers of AI tools. So we’re really shifting the conversation from the way this AI technology is being produced to the way this AI tools are actually being adopted. And adoption is obviously, as you know, going really fast, because every company is really trying to make sense of how to adopt this technology, to be ahead of the game, to beat their competitors. We want to make sure that this conversation is done because obviously we believe in the power of AI, in innovating and unlocking new potential. But at the same time, we want to make sure that it does no harm. And so we’re asking questions such as, Do you have an AI strategy, who is in charge legally through the life cycle of the AI tool? Are you looking at upskilling or re skilling your workers? Do you have any remediation policies, any issues risks related to data privacy, data bias, data provenance. We believe that the majority of especially SMEs, have very, very little clue about any of these issues, and so the idea is to present them with a questionnaire that they can voluntarily decide to fill in, not to fill in, and as much as they would like to fill in, but that will essentially become a Northern Star for CEOs, CTOs general councils any days, who, by the way, have obviously fiduciary responsibility when it comes to these companies, and really bring some clarity in the on how they are implementing these technologies. And if we do this right, there’s a couple of winning, a couple of winners at the end of it, first of all, the companies will be doing no harm, but at the same time, they will really protect themselves from liabilities and really mitigating risk and really having clarity in the process, which they desperately need to have right now. The second winners, the consumers, because by having embarked on these processes, and by disclosing this information, consumers will know which companies are taking AI tools in a certain direction or not, and will be able to trust you know and make informed decisions with their money, and really utilize and have agencies when they made, you know, when they buy, when they vote with their money, then they obviously this invest the investor community, which will soon understand that this that AI adoption is critical when it comes again, to the issue of materiality that they need to assess when it comes to their investment portfolios. And then we believe that this data set can also be very, very useful for governments that need to implement policies and by understanding how what’s working and what’s not working in implementation of AI, they will well, they will be able to develop better policies. So the goal is to create the world’s largest database on corporate AI adoption and to make sure that this becomes a fundamental pillar, if you want, in an ecosystem of trust in AI as a family. Good.
Mark McBride-Wright 34:03
Wow, that’s no small feat. Then really, really ambitious. And that, you know, the Paris Summit’s been taking place this week as well on AI. So all this is so, so relevant. I was in London last week when the Queen Elizabeth prize got announced. It’s essentially the Nobel Prize for engineering and the technology that well, the group that won it this year were the people who essentially helped enable AI to come into existence. So yeah, machine learning and algorithms and what have you. So, yeah, I think the work that you’re doing then is, is, is quite pioneering, and is going to be really needed to underpin proper global adoption on a trust basis, not, not too far in the future, actually, at the pace that things
Antonio Zappulla 34:55
are moving, the timing is now we need to get going absolutely.
Mark McBride-Wright 34:59
Exactly, absolutely. Okay. I want to go on to the quick fire questions. If you wouldn’t mind, sure. So what’s the last book you read?
Antonio Zappulla 35:11
The last book I read is the tech coup by Marietta Shaki, and he’s a fantastic book on the role of technology in society.
Mark McBride-Wright 35:20
What’s the one piece of advice that you live by
Antonio Zappulla 35:24
everything as an elevator has an innovate an elevator pitch, if you can tell a story, it’s not going to happen.
Mark McBride-Wright 35:32
Who inspires you most?
Antonio Zappulla 35:35
Nelson Mandela and Ruth Bader. Ginsburg,
Mark McBride-Wright 35:39
a favorite place you visited, Rio
Antonio Zappulla 35:42
de Janeiro,
Mark McBride-Wright 35:44
coffee or tea, 100% cafe. What’s your go to? Productivity? Tip,
Antonio Zappulla 35:51
sleep, sleep when you need to sleep.
Mark McBride-Wright 35:56
That’s a good one. What’s one thing that you cannot live without?
Antonio Zappulla 36:01
Very pragmatically, I would say the Wi Fi and the internet. I just can’t live without them.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:09
If you weren’t in this career you’re doing now, what would you be doing?
Antonio Zappulla 36:13
I’d be traveling the world. I love traveling the world.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:17
What’s your biggest achievement so far?
Antonio Zappulla 36:21
I rebuilt a house in Sicily, where I’m from, and I love it.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:28
And finally, what’s one thing you’d like to see change in the world?
Antonio Zappulla 36:34
It’s, it’s a dream of mine that I wish every passport was equally powerful.
Mark McBride-Wright 36:41
That’s, that’s, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. Well, thank you very much for your time, for everyone listening, if they want to find out more about you, about your work, about the foundation, where, where should they go?
Antonio Zappulla 37:00
Trust.org. Is our website, and you’ll find tons of information around our work. You can also check trust conference.com that’s the website of our annual event, which, by the way, is a free event, and it’s also on YouTube. So trust conference has also its YouTube page. Another website you want to check out is context dot news, which is our news website. And context on news is also on YouTube, so but I would say trust.org is the portal, the gateway that takes you to everything, the ecosystem of TRF, as we call it, internally,
Mark McBride-Wright 37:32
brilliant. Well, we will put that in the show notes as well so people can access this. Antonio, thank you so much. Really enjoyed it pleasure
Antonio Zappulla 37:41
talking to you. You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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