In this episode of The SAFE Leader Podcast, Mark McBride-Wright is joined by Séverine Trouillet, CEO of STEM Learning—the UK’s largest provider of STEM education and careers support. With a powerful blend of personal insight and sector expertise, Séverine shares what drives her mission to widen participation in STEM, especially for underrepresented communities.
From her reflections on having a “squiggly career” to her determination to change the narrative for girls who feel STEM isn’t for them, Séverine brings clarity, purpose, and action to the forefront. She speaks about the importance of industry collaboration, targeted outreach, and why diversity isn’t just a buzzword, it’s the backbone of future innovation.
Read the Transcript
Mark McBride-Wright 0:01
Hello. Welcome to the next episode of the safe leader podcast. I’m your host, Mark McBride Wright, and I’m delighted today to be joined by Severine touye, who is the CEO of STEM learning. So severene is the CEO of STEM learning, the UK’s largest provider of STEM education and career support, dedicated to improving young people’s opportunities through teacher training, student enrichment activities and employer engagement, including the stem Ambassadors Program. With a background as a senior leader in tech at dastem, she focused on education and workforce development in industries like aerospace, energy and manufacturing. Sevlene, earlier career spanned public affairs and stakeholder engagement roles across Europe, working on sustainable development and corporate transformation. She holds advanced degrees from LSE La sochbon and Sciences Po along with a diploma in business, sustainability management from Cambridge in her spare time, she enjoys running, hiking, reading and mentoring underrepresented, underrepresented communities in STEM. She’s also a board member of the Franco British Data Society and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts. Sevaline, nice to meet you.
Mark McBride-Wright 1:28
to be here. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And we were just saying on the call there, and when we first connected a moment ago, this is actually the first time spoken. Exactly is, I think, when Yvonne, your predecessor, moved on, because she’s now actually at the institution of chemical engineers, which is my professional engineering institution, still to meet her. Actually, don’t think we’ve met yet. So I, you know, I really wanted to connect with whoever was going to lead up stem STEM learning. Because I’m surprised it’s taken us this long to connect. Actually, I
Mark McBride-Wright 2:16
Absolutely because, because, you know, I mean, when I was a graduate, it was when I was a graduate, you know, 15 years ago, or something we we did. I did STEM AMBASSADOR training, you know, it was part of our graduate recruitment process, not it wasn’t part of the graduate recruitment process. It was part of, once we became a graduate, it was something that you were, you were tasked with doing, you know, and obviously, growing equal engineers. A lot of the companies that we work with, it just rolls off your tongue, you know, oh, we’ve got stem ambassadors, or organization, you know, we’ve got stem ambassadors, stem ambassadors, etc. So I want to dig into that in this chat together. But before we get to that part of your career in that that business, and you know what you do there, let’s I love knowing about the people that are on the podcast, people who were talking to and understanding your your history and what inspired you, and what you where you’re at now. So if we wind back the clock and and go back in time. What, what did you want to be when you were older? You know, are you doing now what the young Severine thought she would be doing at this stage?
Mark McBride-Wright 6:30
So did that? Did that make you then want to do the so I just looked at it tightly. Your your masters that. So the business sustainability management, yes, that you did at Cambridge was that a kind that you wanted to dig deeper into this. So you you took that time out to do that absolutely
Mark McBride-Wright 7:41
Wow. So what? What brought you? I’ve heard this phrase recently about a squiggly career, yes. And so what brought you to, I can see how what you’ve done then would naturally lead you to, with a bit of thought, lead you to what you’re doing now. But it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t feel like it’s the the obvious route, you know, to off ascension with the pathway that you were on. So what did the opportunity to come up, the job role come up? And you thought, oh, wow, that sounds interesting. Let’s look at that. Or were you approached for the role headhunted like, what? What brought you to STEM learning? So
Mark McBride-Wright 10:32
yeah, that’s that’s really interesting. So what? So then bring us up to the present, or the not so distant past to the present, now and the future. In this context of of STEM learning, what, what was it like when you arrived? You know, what did you pick up? And what’s been, what have you had, what you’re going through now? You know, what? What’s the what the current challenges and opportunities? And because we’ve had a change in administration and government since you took over, yeah, just, just talk us through your life in the last 18 months.
Mark McBride-Wright 12:29
us an idea, then, about the the scale the impact, like the size of the the organization, the number of young people’s lives that you touch the number of activity that your work helps underpin through the broader network of STEM ambassadors. I I’ll admit, outside looking in, I’m not I see, I hear stem ambassadors mentioned, and I know that STEM learning is the overarching umbrella around it, but I don’t know the scale and size and how many schools you’re touching, and what the age group is that you target, and how many organizations you’re you’re involved, you know, I don’t, I don’t have that level. It’d be really interesting to know, is it? Is it? Is it? I always find that, you know, is enough being done. And I guess the answer is, no, you know, we need to just always do more. And therefore, like, do you have the capacity to be the place that’s doing all of it? Or is there a? I just, I’m really interested. There’s a there’s a lot of, I remember the Royal Academy quote now statistic once that there’s about 600 organizations or projects or initiatives doing stuff in the primary slash secondary space when it comes to STEM engagement. And so I’m part of me is because, because we do stuff as well as equal engineers through funded partnerships with other organizations, I just wondered if how fractured it all is, and fragmented. It’s not fractured that sounds negative, how fragmented some of it can be. Are we is, are we doing a bit of a disservice, actually, to what and we need more cohesion for, for having greater impact? Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 20:51
that, yeah, they, they were two things that I sort of found. I mean, it’s been a long time since I did any through STEM learning, like in front of the classroom I’ve done, I’ve done a couple of things since then, but using different resources. The one thing I found that, now, looking back on it, I realized we should have done that a bit differently from a socio economic perspective, when I did the stem outreach, one of my employers was we went to like, the same schools, which is fine, it’s good to build up a relationship, keep going the same schools, but they were schools where members of staff had their kids, and some of the schools were the private schools, etc, in the local area. And it was just easier because we had a connection with a teacher, and it was just easier to get in. So looking back on it, I kind of think, well, I remember hearing that for every private school that you go to, you should try and engage with, like the local state school or one of the one of the local schools, and as well, to try and talk about equity, you know. And if you’re offering work shadow days, you know, well, is there a bit of nepotism there, in the sense that, like, Why does your neighbors daughter get a chance? You know, could you do a favor? Or, like, well, then if you are going to do that, well, can you then make it something where you bring in a student from the local school, where there’s no connections, and the teachers, you start scaffolding that connection locally with groups that don’t typically engage in I found with with there’s another point I won’t mention a moment, actually, the what I found when doing the engagement. So your point on diversity is really interesting. I do think the engineers is usually the graduates or even apprentices. I guess they do end up feeling like it’s them, then that have to be out there doing the inspiration stuff. But then it then it depends on middle management and their superiors, like, do they see that as being fully aligned and what the sector needs, or is it a distraction? And are they away from their day job? And therefore, there’s a there’s a perceived penalty paid because they’ve not been present. I also found, and this is something that I think we should we’re maybe not doing enough of and now is the time to do it. Maybe we’ve gone, I don’t know. This is just my view. I found there’s quite a lot of male engineers in their 50s. Odd. You know that tranche of the engineering population are going to retire in the next 10 to 15 years? Five to 15 years, know that change needs to happen. Can see a diverse cohort coming through the ranks, but don’t feel like they’re allowed or that they should be the ones being in front of the students in the schools. Because, you know, what have I got to share? How am I inspiring? You know, and actually, it’s them that I’ve got the experience, the depth of experience that can then come alive when doing the stem engagement. So does it? I don’t know. It’s really interesting. When we work with businesses, it’s like, Well, are you letting this tranche of the workforce go out and be or do you think through your stem ambassador program, it just has to be the graduates and those that look different from the majority. Now, yeah, we
Mark McBride-Wright 26:51
right, yeah. I think, well, my next question, maybe it can be answered with this future activity. What how do you find, as I remember our so we, we don’t do them anymore, just because there are a lot of effort to but our careers fairs, we used to do equal engineers careers fairs, and we just found they became really time intensive. And what? Yeah, they were just there was there a few reasons, and we’ve replaced them with alternative provision through going to universities and focusing in on that, that transition from university to employment. But obviously you need to go a lot earlier than that to activate interest. And so at our careers fairs, we used to in the morning, be open exclusively for schools from 10 to 12. And, you know, we probably had, you know, across the 50 career series that we ran across six years, I think we had, you know, I know, 150 or so schools, you know, so 1000s of students across those those year groups. But one of the trends that I noticed two years into running the events, and this was a real interesting barrier that was seeing play out when we would because of, we’re equal engineers, right? And we want to invite everyone and create equitable access. We I specifically targeted specialist educational needs and or disability schools. So send, send schools to invite them in the morning, smaller numbers, quieter environment, you know, no music, lights not glaring, and exhibitors that are primed to, you know, expect the profile that will come, and therefore how to best engage and support the interested parties. I thought our hand would be bitten off, you know, at that opportunity. But what I found was just a whole the first year we did it, at least all these responses being like, no, sorry, our pupils wouldn’t be suitable for a career in STEM. No, no, no. Our pupils can’t do that. No. And I found so the gatekeepers, the secretaries, the people who were handling the inbound inquiries to the school, were basically, essentially filtering out the opportunity. So when I dig a bit deeper, I appreciated the diversity that’s there in send sendee provision and the different levels and scales, etc. So I appreciated some of the schools, fair enough, you know, that the individuals there just living independently will be a great achievement for them, you know. And so it just might. It might just be a bit too much for them come to an event, but, I but, but equally, let them decide. Let bring them along. Let them have a conversation. Let them find out, if anything, they then at least find out about careers in STEM they get to see some fancy, you know, kit on the day, it bugged me a lot, you know, the fact that we’re pre and this was before neurodiverse. Was really a term that was being used as much as it is now. So I was just seeing in real time in my email inbox, trying to run this event, these events, seeing barrier, barrier, barrier, to getting registered groups. But then the groups that did come, they were brilliant, you know, like, I’ve got anecdotal, anecdotal feedback from some clients that had, you know, specific think the ministry, the Ministry of Defense, had a challenge to, like, solve a puzzle. One of the students solve, pupils solved it, you know, three times faster than just regular footfall. So
Mark McBride-Wright 33:37
Absolutely, absolutely. I always use the the feed forward feedback analogy, you know, using because I’m an engineer by background, I love using engineering idioms, but repurposed for when we talk about how we now need to do our interventions. I do also think, though, that we over engineer the theory of how we need to do the change. And one of my critiques of funding, and sometimes is it’s just disproportionate the amount of work you need to do as a small business or as a charity, you know, to secure funds, developing theories of change and developing this and developing that, and evidence this and evidence and that, it is important to understand your impact, but I think we just need to get on and do stuff as well and accept a bit of testing and trialing. And if it fails, then what do we learn from it? And then try something else, and just invest a bit. And do I think we spend a little bit too much time theorizing on what we ought to do, rather than just being out there and doing what
Mark McBride-Wright 35:53
It’s a really good point, isn’t it? It’s like it’s speaking to the individuals in the in the in the sense of the multiple hats that they wear in life, as an engineer at work, as a parent at home, or as an uncle or an auntie to, you know, other young people in their life, you know, and then thinking, Well, what action can you take in that bit your life? And do you have some privilege and power and role decision making that you could unlock something that then helps what you’re trying to achieve in your personal life, in your local community, but on a broader basis for the county within which you’re doing business, and maybe it’s actually then good for your business, because you can, I see, I see, I’ve been talking to some social value consultants on this. And I just, I see so much. I see such a gap right now between what comes out and to your point, when you said, when you your motivation for how the public purse can be used as a force for good to unlock opportunity. You know all that right now is trying to be baked in through the social value act, and what, what companies are doing through that, and what, what value they’re unlocking through the monies that they receive for, then the communities that they’re going to build a new hospital or build a bridge or build a wind turbine or whatever. I I think there’s a lack of understanding that within that social value language, that is where some of the stuff that we are discussing sits. And therefore there’s a perception that the funding of activities like the ones that our businesses offer, needs to come from core, centralized pots, which tend to be smaller compared to the you know what they’ve won on specific projects. So I feel like, if there was a bit of alignment nationally, I almost want, I’d love, to have a session where we get a map of the UK. We chunk it up, we look at each region. We layer on to it. What is the active industry in each region? What? What are the unique skills that are needed going forward in each region? Okay, next layer down, what is the STEM AMBASSADOR distribution through your network of employers and role models and what have you. And then look at, like the business pipeline of opportunities, of industry development, what are the skills needs that are going to be there and and then we get down to the the day to day interactions, and we almost like, I wonder if there’s a way to have, like, a big AI program that then tells you, like, what, what engagement activity needs to happen in, what post codes, what
Mark McBride-Wright 41:05
exciting. And so I’m actually now based in Brooklyn, in New York, located recently. And so, yeah, I’m very interested to see what lies here, you know, and what learnings Can I bring from what we do in the United Kingdom over to here? And, you know, even in whatever the political headwinds are ahead of us with diversity and inclusion and equity and what is included and not included, I think it’ll go in a different direction to the way where the UK is, but we’re still going to need engineers, and we’re still going to need people, you know. So we can’t stop doing these sort of inspiration, opportunities, events, projects. So I don’t know.
Mark McBride-Wright 43:04
Oh, I’ve loved that. Well, I mean, the organization is only 20 years old. So you know that seven year old that you inspired and 20? Oh, God, do my math, you know? Is now, is now, is now out there. You know,
Mark McBride-Wright 44:05
with all the with what you just described, as well, with the How to orchestrate the change. STEM learning has got the right person at the helm, because it must be so interesting, bringing in your public affairs and policy and politics experience to influence that strategy and figure out that pathway forward are you finding? Are you finding like you’re able to pull on strengths and skills that you’ve got from other parts of your career now, in this leadership role that you’re in,
Mark McBride-Wright 46:16
oh, completely. Wow. Wow. Great advice there. Okay, quick fire questions, are you You ready for them? Yes. Okay, so what’s the most rewarding part of your job right now?
Mark McBride-Wright 47:54
with Why? Simon Sinek, morning person or night owl, morning definitely. What’s the one leadership skill you think everyone should work on?
Mark McBride-Wright 49:03
What’s the one thing you think will revolutionize STEM education in the next decade, artificial intelligence? And finally, what’s one habit you’ve developed that has been key to your success?
Mark McBride-Wright 49:26
That’s great advice. Well, thank you very much. I’ve really, really enjoyed our chat today. If people want to get in touch with you, find out more about your work, what you do? Connect, find out more about STEM learning. How do they do that?
Mark McBride-Wright 50:00
It’s wonderful a wavelength. Love That Good Good stem word there we’ll put, we’ll put those links in the show notes as well. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Thanks. Eveline, have a great day.
E014: STEM Belongs to Everyone
Podcast Description
Read the Transcript
Mark McBride-Wright 0:01
Hello. Welcome to the next episode of the safe leader podcast. I’m your host, Mark McBride Wright, and I’m delighted today to be joined by Severine touye, who is the CEO of STEM learning. So severene is the CEO of STEM learning, the UK’s largest provider of STEM education and career support, dedicated to improving young people’s opportunities through teacher training, student enrichment activities and employer engagement, including the stem Ambassadors Program. With a background as a senior leader in tech at dastem, she focused on education and workforce development in industries like aerospace, energy and manufacturing. Sevlene, earlier career spanned public affairs and stakeholder engagement roles across Europe, working on sustainable development and corporate transformation. She holds advanced degrees from LSE La sochbon and Sciences Po along with a diploma in business, sustainability management from Cambridge in her spare time, she enjoys running, hiking, reading and mentoring underrepresented, underrepresented communities in STEM. She’s also a board member of the Franco British Data Society and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts. Sevaline, nice to meet you.
Séverine Trouillet 1:23
Very nice to meet you, Mark. I’m delighted to be here. I really admire your work, so it’s a pleasure for me
Mark McBride-Wright 1:28
to be here. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And we were just saying on the call there, and when we first connected a moment ago, this is actually the first time spoken. Exactly is, I think, when Yvonne, your predecessor, moved on, because she’s now actually at the institution of chemical engineers, which is my professional engineering institution, still to meet her. Actually, don’t think we’ve met yet. So I, you know, I really wanted to connect with whoever was going to lead up stem STEM learning. Because I’m surprised it’s taken us this long to connect. Actually, I
Séverine Trouillet 2:07
think we’re very close, but you know, through our networks and connections and also spirits of ideas, so it was meant to happen
Mark McBride-Wright 2:16
Absolutely because, because, you know, I mean, when I was a graduate, it was when I was a graduate, you know, 15 years ago, or something we we did. I did STEM AMBASSADOR training, you know, it was part of our graduate recruitment process, not it wasn’t part of the graduate recruitment process. It was part of, once we became a graduate, it was something that you were, you were tasked with doing, you know, and obviously, growing equal engineers. A lot of the companies that we work with, it just rolls off your tongue, you know, oh, we’ve got stem ambassadors, or organization, you know, we’ve got stem ambassadors, stem ambassadors, etc. So I want to dig into that in this chat together. But before we get to that part of your career in that that business, and you know what you do there, let’s I love knowing about the people that are on the podcast, people who were talking to and understanding your your history and what inspired you, and what you where you’re at now. So if we wind back the clock and and go back in time. What, what did you want to be when you were older? You know, are you doing now what the young Severine thought she would be doing at this stage?
Séverine Trouillet 3:32
Yeah. So I think as a young child, I probably wanted to be a teacher, because that’s, you know, that’s the first thing that you’re exposed to. And I remember putting all the teddy bears in my room in order, you know, and talking to them and telling them, you know, what they should learn, that I just learned myself at school. So I think that was my, you know, my first inspiration finding the teachers so, you know, so great to hear and to be with them, to learn every day. So I think that that’s that was my first, my first career. But I think when I grew up, I was also inspired by my parents. We both in the medical profession. They were a doctor and a nurse, and then my mom became a nurse, teaching to other nurses. But unfortunately, math was not my forte, so I think it took me away from, you know, the STEM, STEM topics. And I think now part of me wants to try to rectify this situation for, you know, some girls will think that because math is not for them, they then discard all of the STEM topics and decide to get themselves from a lot of opportunities in life. So I think that that has probably formed, you know, a lot of the decisions I’ve made in my career, later in life, but I was also very passionate. Was a teenager. Are about geopolitics and how decisions made by states and government can change people’s lives. So that’s where I ended up studying politics, wanting to work, you know, in the public realm, and that’s why my first job was with a French MP, and then worked with the UK local government in local authorities, in quangos, because I was interested, interested in, you know, if you use the public purse wisely, you can literally change people’s lives. Then working in politics, you also realize that organizations and companies have a role to play. And that’s where I really started my career in public affairs, which means working with companies and policy makers trying to make sure you have a very informed debate and you make the best decisions in policy. And for me, that was a revelation, because I realized that companies can also be corporate citizens. They can be active in supporting the public good. And I think that’s where my stem journey really, actually started, because most of the companies I was working with were in cosmetics, in engineering, infrastructure, energy. And it was really interesting to see how with data, with information around trends in businesses, with decisions you can make, to make, you know, your operations more sustainable. You can have stem, you know, influence the lives of people in a positive way.
Mark McBride-Wright 6:30
So did that? Did that make you then want to do the so I just looked at it tightly. Your your masters that. So the business sustainability management, yes, that you did at Cambridge was that a kind that you wanted to dig deeper into this. So you you took that time out to do that absolutely
Séverine Trouillet 6:49
and I think for me, it’s the importance of STEM being, allowing you to be an agent in change, including in sustainability. And that’s why I worked with a lot of different industries. I remember working with cosmetic companies, for instance, when I was in Brussels, and it was interesting how they wanted to show you know what they were doing against animal testing on cosmetics and the work of the scientists there, as well as how they use science to substitute some ingredients, because some had been proved to be carcinogens. So it was, it was very for me. It was very clear that science can power sustainability. And, you know, from there, you know, I wanted to work in health, in tech, because I know that that was the way to change and transform.
Mark McBride-Wright 7:41
Wow. So what? What brought you? I’ve heard this phrase recently about a squiggly career, yes. And so what brought you to, I can see how what you’ve done then would naturally lead you to, with a bit of thought, lead you to what you’re doing now. But it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t feel like it’s the the obvious route, you know, to off ascension with the pathway that you were on. So what did the opportunity to come up, the job role come up? And you thought, oh, wow, that sounds interesting. Let’s look at that. Or were you approached for the role headhunted like, what? What brought you to STEM learning? So
Séverine Trouillet 8:27
first mark you’re spot on around squiggly career. It’s something that I came across, you know, a year ago, and I saw that’s exactly what happened to me. Yeah, what I wanted it to be. And I think it’s very liberating, you know, for people who had squiggly careers, that it’s not something they should be ashamed of, and that it’s something that you know, in a way, use your transferable skills show your resilience. And I think, because I’m very curious, you know, I’ve always wanted to learn from somewhere and take that knowledge from somewhere else. I think it’s very powerful to take your learnings and then bring it to a different sector, a different organization, so that, you know, you can actually make a difference and have an impact. Which is, you know, we were talking about STEM learning and STEM AMBASSADOR, which is, I think key for me, it’s, why do I do a job? Is because I want to have an impact. I want there to be a transformation. So I think that’s the why has been the driving force, okay? And I think I was already on that journey about, what can you do to still go back to that public good, you know, if you’re not working for a public organization, yeah, how else can you do that? So my last job before joining STEM learning was with daso system, a very innovative software company, which does you know, Lyd modeling, working on platforms to have one single source of truth across different ecosystems. It was very innovative. And so was doing public affairs there, but also was leading the education business, making sure we empower, you know, the workforce of the future by providing more software, because they need these young people need to be ready for the. World of Tomorrow, virtual twins, design, modeling is something that is going to help with sustainability, with innovation, with the fast pace of change. So when I was there, I realized, actually, if there’s one lever that can help with speeding innovation while improving people’s lives and also their prospects, is education, yeah, and that’s when STEM learning called and so they were heading for a for a new CEO, and I think I had no option but to say, yes,
Mark McBride-Wright 10:32
yeah, that’s that’s really interesting. So what? So then bring us up to the present, or the not so distant past to the present, now and the future. In this context of of STEM learning, what, what was it like when you arrived? You know, what did you pick up? And what’s been, what have you had, what you’re going through now? You know, what? What’s the what the current challenges and opportunities? And because we’ve had a change in administration and government since you took over, yeah, just, just talk us through your life in the last 18 months.
Séverine Trouillet 11:08
Yes. So when I arrived, I was very impressed by the passion of the people who are actually making STEM learning what it is today. All Our colleagues are driven by this. This this will to really improve the life of young people. And I think it’s quite rare to have in an organization, every single person who knows exactly what the mission is and what they’re driving to do and and whoever you talk to, you know that they’re driven by this passion, that they know their why, and they’re working every day tirelessly for this objective. So I think it’s quite unique, and it felt, you know, really good. And I thought I made the right choice. Whenever I got up in the morning, I thought, you know, I know exactly why I’m going to work today, and that felt extremely good. So I think a purpose driven, you know, organization is makes the whole difference, yeah. And I felt like it was a luxury, because, you know, at a point of my career where I could say, you know, this is where I want to work, that was thinking of my younger self, you know, because sometimes you just need to find a job. Yeah, you’re not sure about, you know, what you’re going to find there and what is actually driving you, but when you can reach that, that that stage, you know, it feels really good. So that’s the first thing I thought when I arrived in this in this job. Give
Mark McBride-Wright 12:29
us an idea, then, about the the scale the impact, like the size of the the organization, the number of young people’s lives that you touch the number of activity that your work helps underpin through the broader network of STEM ambassadors. I I’ll admit, outside looking in, I’m not I see, I hear stem ambassadors mentioned, and I know that STEM learning is the overarching umbrella around it, but I don’t know the scale and size and how many schools you’re touching, and what the age group is that you target, and how many organizations you’re you’re involved, you know, I don’t, I don’t have that level. It’d be really interesting to know, is it? Is it? Is it? I always find that, you know, is enough being done. And I guess the answer is, no, you know, we need to just always do more. And therefore, like, do you have the capacity to be the place that’s doing all of it? Or is there a? I just, I’m really interested. There’s a there’s a lot of, I remember the Royal Academy quote now statistic once that there’s about 600 organizations or projects or initiatives doing stuff in the primary slash secondary space when it comes to STEM engagement. And so I’m part of me is because, because we do stuff as well as equal engineers through funded partnerships with other organizations, I just wondered if how fractured it all is, and fragmented. It’s not fractured that sounds negative, how fragmented some of it can be. Are we is, are we doing a bit of a disservice, actually, to what and we need more cohesion for, for having greater impact? Yeah,
Séverine Trouillet 14:16
I must say, like it’s the first, you know, the first thing I realized about the stem landscape when I joined is the number of organizations. And you know, we all love our space and our role to play, but when I put myself in the shoes of a teacher or a funder or an employer trying to understand, you know, how they can help, they can find it confusing. And so I think it’s very important for all these organizations to explain their why, why they’re doing this, and the impact they’re having. And I would say, you know, again, here, the word for me is the impact. If you can measure and explain how you have transformed lives, what you have supported and helped with, then it’s very clear, you know, where people. People need to invest their time, their money, their resources. So I think it’s, it’s making, you know, a lot of sense to try to be very clear when you, when you explain what you do as a stem organization, what is the impact you are going to you are going to make? So when it comes to STEM learning, we also, I want to come on to the challenges, because, you know, it’s been an organization going for 20 years, but change is more rapid than ever. So STEM learning is an organization of 160 people strong at the moment, and we are working across primary and secondary children up to the age of 19 and young students and we have got three main ways of improving lives through STEM education. The first one is to support teachers with their continuous professional development, what we call CPD. So usually teachers teach science, computer science, but many of them are non specialists. There’s currently in the UK crisis around teacher retention and teacher recruitment. So you will find that it’s not uncommon that a PE teacher, physical education teacher will have to teach physics or math or biology. And so we what we do is we support with CPD so that they have the confidence they need in the classroom, because if they feel confident that they can inspire young people, and we’ve had several studies showing that if you go on CPD with STEM learning, you’re 150% more likely to stay in the teaching profession. You are gaining in confidence, you will do peer to peer learning. But of course, the challenge is attached to that, because we need to know who pays for CPD. So we had a lot of funding from government. But as you know, there are a lot of strains in education across the board, and this is changing. So the question is, you know, how do we finance the CPD for it to be sustained and sustainable? This is, we believe that this is a key way to help. Because I don’t know if you heard of a multiplier effect, but if you support a teacher, if they’re confident in front of their classroom, if they keep their knowledge and their, you know, skills development fresh, then they can inspire up to 100 students. But I didn’t know that. Okay, I didn’t know that. No, when they when they do that, you know, it’s worth investing in teaching CPD and teacher support, because they inspire the young people. We have studies proving that when a teacher goes on, CPD, the attainment of the pupils improves. Wow. Their motivation improves. So it is absolutely key. So this is the first pillar. The second pillar we have is the stem ambassador program, as you say. So this is a program that’s been running for 20 years, as you mentioned earlier. It’s funded by the agency Ukri, and the idea there is to have role models that are going into schools that illustrate the curriculum for a teacher and help address issues around career advice, career support. And it’s making STEM fund really is to help develop a love for stem so you will have, you know, different backgrounds. I think we are representing roughly the diversity we see in the in the UK society.
Mark McBride-Wright 18:31
Okay, that’s good. With
Séverine Trouillet 18:33
half of our ambassadors, or a bit above, are female. 70% are from ethnic minorities. And we’ve got, in general, a good representation of those who are usually underrepresented in STEM yeah, sometimes that we put the burden on these audiences to try to redress an issue. But in general, you know, diversity is is key, because we want young people to see what they can be, and if they don’t feel they belong, they will not think that they can start a career as a scientist, as a biologist, as a tech entrepreneur. So the second pillar for us is key, because we need to make sure that industry steps in, goes into the classroom, explain, you know, what are the expectations for innovation in the future? And it actually also helps teachers, because when you think about it, most teachers have gone to school, to university and then back to school. Yeah, expect them to know about, you know, what it means to be an engineer today, when, when I speak to, you know, our engineering sister organizations and professionals, they tell me about the amount of different jobs you can do as an engineer. And it’s Yeah, anymore, you know, the hard hats, the high vis vest. You can be working in cyber security as an engineer, you can be working on. Climate change topics, it’s hugely varied. And if, if role models don’t go into schools and explain that variety, the other source of of inspiration for children and young people is parents. And parents don’t know, you know, they, they’ve got some very specific ideas of what a STEM career is. And I would they, you know, what? Why would they? So it’s very important that we have this external interventions, yes, and also that these are sustained. Because you when you were a STEM AMBASSADOR, so you probably went several times to the same place, or, you know, try to follow a cohort. And this is the secret, because if you do something once it doesn’t imprint on young people’s minds. Need it multiple and go back and do something slightly different. But have this, you know, this consistency, yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 20:51
that, yeah, they, they were two things that I sort of found. I mean, it’s been a long time since I did any through STEM learning, like in front of the classroom I’ve done, I’ve done a couple of things since then, but using different resources. The one thing I found that, now, looking back on it, I realized we should have done that a bit differently from a socio economic perspective, when I did the stem outreach, one of my employers was we went to like, the same schools, which is fine, it’s good to build up a relationship, keep going the same schools, but they were schools where members of staff had their kids, and some of the schools were the private schools, etc, in the local area. And it was just easier because we had a connection with a teacher, and it was just easier to get in. So looking back on it, I kind of think, well, I remember hearing that for every private school that you go to, you should try and engage with, like the local state school or one of the one of the local schools, and as well, to try and talk about equity, you know. And if you’re offering work shadow days, you know, well, is there a bit of nepotism there, in the sense that, like, Why does your neighbors daughter get a chance? You know, could you do a favor? Or, like, well, then if you are going to do that, well, can you then make it something where you bring in a student from the local school, where there’s no connections, and the teachers, you start scaffolding that connection locally with groups that don’t typically engage in I found with with there’s another point I won’t mention a moment, actually, the what I found when doing the engagement. So your point on diversity is really interesting. I do think the engineers is usually the graduates or even apprentices. I guess they do end up feeling like it’s them, then that have to be out there doing the inspiration stuff. But then it then it depends on middle management and their superiors, like, do they see that as being fully aligned and what the sector needs, or is it a distraction? And are they away from their day job? And therefore, there’s a there’s a perceived penalty paid because they’ve not been present. I also found, and this is something that I think we should we’re maybe not doing enough of and now is the time to do it. Maybe we’ve gone, I don’t know. This is just my view. I found there’s quite a lot of male engineers in their 50s. Odd. You know that tranche of the engineering population are going to retire in the next 10 to 15 years? Five to 15 years, know that change needs to happen. Can see a diverse cohort coming through the ranks, but don’t feel like they’re allowed or that they should be the ones being in front of the students in the schools. Because, you know, what have I got to share? How am I inspiring? You know, and actually, it’s them that I’ve got the experience, the depth of experience that can then come alive when doing the stem engagement. So does it? I don’t know. It’s really interesting. When we work with businesses, it’s like, Well, are you letting this tranche of the workforce go out and be or do you think through your stem ambassador program, it just has to be the graduates and those that look different from the majority. Now, yeah, we
Séverine Trouillet 24:25
say mark this. There’s no rule. And I think we’ve got, in terms of scales, you were asking about, you know, how many people? Which? We’ve got, 30,000 stem ambassadors registered in the UK, and on a regular basis, 14,000 are active. So lots of people going out. So in there you will have people from all horizons, all ages, all backgrounds. And I think you will find passion in all tranches, you know, of STEM STEM professions. I think the value of having graduates is the, you know, near peer role. Model, yes, which is a concept, I think, which is very interesting, because the closer you are to my experience, you know, the more I will listen to you, the more I will feel I can be you. Yes, having, you know, young, young professionals who’ve gone through an apprenticeship or internship, and then, you know, went on to have a STEM career. But I think there’s also a lot of value in having the experience as well. So I would say, you know, it has to be a variety. And, you know, I think my ideal would be to have a team of people were very diverse within a company, you know, volunteering at the same time and showing, you know, what value you bring as a team as well, with different people from different backgrounds. So I think that’s that’s key, and on your first point around going to places where nobody’s going, I think that’s the key. When I arrive in STEM learning, I saw the stem elastic program was very universal, but I think there’s a lot of value in targeting intervention. So that’s started when I arrived, because otherwise you never break stereotypes. You never break the i My dad is an engineer, so he’s going to come to my school. My mom is working in tech, so she’s going to come to my you know, Girl Scouts group. It has to be an effort for us to make sure we go where nobody else goes, or where it’s more challenging to go, and we plan to do more in the next couple of years. We’ve secured funding for the stellar master program to have more targeted intervention where we want to have an impact and go out and try to find where it’s difficult to go, okay, rather than, you know. And all activities are good, you know, they but some are easier to walk. Yes. How do you make the effort so your point is absolutely valid. Otherwise you just, you know, you’re in that circle where you feed your audience that is already going, Yeah. Going
Mark McBride-Wright 26:51
right, yeah. I think, well, my next question, maybe it can be answered with this future activity. What how do you find, as I remember our so we, we don’t do them anymore, just because there are a lot of effort to but our careers fairs, we used to do equal engineers careers fairs, and we just found they became really time intensive. And what? Yeah, they were just there was there a few reasons, and we’ve replaced them with alternative provision through going to universities and focusing in on that, that transition from university to employment. But obviously you need to go a lot earlier than that to activate interest. And so at our careers fairs, we used to in the morning, be open exclusively for schools from 10 to 12. And, you know, we probably had, you know, across the 50 career series that we ran across six years, I think we had, you know, I know, 150 or so schools, you know, so 1000s of students across those those year groups. But one of the trends that I noticed two years into running the events, and this was a real interesting barrier that was seeing play out when we would because of, we’re equal engineers, right? And we want to invite everyone and create equitable access. We I specifically targeted specialist educational needs and or disability schools. So send, send schools to invite them in the morning, smaller numbers, quieter environment, you know, no music, lights not glaring, and exhibitors that are primed to, you know, expect the profile that will come, and therefore how to best engage and support the interested parties. I thought our hand would be bitten off, you know, at that opportunity. But what I found was just a whole the first year we did it, at least all these responses being like, no, sorry, our pupils wouldn’t be suitable for a career in STEM. No, no, no. Our pupils can’t do that. No. And I found so the gatekeepers, the secretaries, the people who were handling the inbound inquiries to the school, were basically, essentially filtering out the opportunity. So when I dig a bit deeper, I appreciated the diversity that’s there in send sendee provision and the different levels and scales, etc. So I appreciated some of the schools, fair enough, you know, that the individuals there just living independently will be a great achievement for them, you know. And so it just might. It might just be a bit too much for them come to an event, but, I but, but equally, let them decide. Let bring them along. Let them have a conversation. Let them find out, if anything, they then at least find out about careers in STEM they get to see some fancy, you know, kit on the day, it bugged me a lot, you know, the fact that we’re pre and this was before neurodiverse. Was really a term that was being used as much as it is now. So I was just seeing in real time in my email inbox, trying to run this event, these events, seeing barrier, barrier, barrier, to getting registered groups. But then the groups that did come, they were brilliant, you know, like, I’ve got anecdotal, anecdotal feedback from some clients that had, you know, specific think the ministry, the Ministry of Defense, had a challenge to, like, solve a puzzle. One of the students solve, pupils solved it, you know, three times faster than just regular footfall. So
Séverine Trouillet 30:34
it’s been proven that neurodiversity, you know, can be an asset in STEM and sometimes you know that actually helps you, you know, excelling in these topics and in this field. So, so, you know, I think it’s, it’s the challenges that you can see in schools that I think you’re referring to that, you know, and that’s why I think an organization like STEM learning and equalities are so important, because you need to read. You need to understand the context in which we evolve. You know, industry wants this, but education challenges, you know, especially today. So I think it’s about understanding, you know, how you can explain the value of doing something like this, and how you know how you have understood, you know, the problems, the limitations, but you still want, you know, to show the impact it can have. And I think that’s why we as STEM learning also developed a third pillar to our activities, which is around student facing activities. Because as well, they can decide, you know, you you you can go through schools, you have, you know, to get the help of teachers to select people, but sometimes they also can find their own ways. So that’s why we launched the destination STEM program, which is basically to have more student facing activities. We’ve launched a platform where they can have career advice, find videos, brilliant, offer skills like mentoring, that is done via text message, because we know that’s how teams, you know, like to interact. We’ve got stem intensive camps to ensure that before they choose their GCSE and their careers, young people have an opportunity to spend four days, you know, with STEM ambassadors, with experts and really, you know, infuse some some fun in STEM. Yeah. So all of these destination STEM activities are directly for students, because we felt the need to go through the teachers, through the schools and the stem ambassadors sessions, but also directly to them to see, you know, how we could help them with career advice. And we were going to try to make sure we do that as well. You know this, this career support in primary because, as you said, you have to do it very early. You’ve probably seen a lot of studies about young children from the age of seven deciding what they don’t want to do, and once you’ve frozen that, you know, stereotype, it’s very difficult to, for instance, make a girl decide that STEM is for her. When she’s decided that she can’t see anybody like her, she doesn’t know what STEM is for, and she want, doesn’t want to do it. So if you don’t start some sort of career advice from primary, it’s very, you know, you’ve got a leaky pipeline that keeps leaking. And, yeah, when you talk about skills at the end, you know, post 16 stage, you’ve got a very small pool to choose from, yeah. And I think today, I would say most jobs have a stem dimension to them, so much in the number of employers fighting for a very small pool of talents.
Mark McBride-Wright 33:37
Absolutely, absolutely. I always use the the feed forward feedback analogy, you know, using because I’m an engineer by background, I love using engineering idioms, but repurposed for when we talk about how we now need to do our interventions. I do also think, though, that we over engineer the theory of how we need to do the change. And one of my critiques of funding, and sometimes is it’s just disproportionate the amount of work you need to do as a small business or as a charity, you know, to secure funds, developing theories of change and developing this and developing that, and evidence this and evidence and that, it is important to understand your impact, but I think we just need to get on and do stuff as well and accept a bit of testing and trialing. And if it fails, then what do we learn from it? And then try something else, and just invest a bit. And do I think we spend a little bit too much time theorizing on what we ought to do, rather than just being out there and doing what
Séverine Trouillet 34:48
I see that myself, Mark is when we talk about diversity in STEM, a lot of organizations, you know, very well intentioned, they want to tackle this issue, because I think it’s the number one. Thing you can do to improve that talent pool and widen it. But a lot of people talk a lot about the challenges, yeah, and, and, you know, why we got there and, and I think it’s definitely an area where, if you started to act, you know, and maybe focus all the events and the discussion on, what are the tangible actions we can agree on today to make sure that there’s more diversity in them. What do I do differently myself? How can I convince my employer or my school to do something differently and be very tangible about it? I think for me, that’s where I see. You know what you’re you know you’re describing as more more doing than talking, because we know what the challenges are. We’ve explored them. We just need to get on with the tangible solutions to rectify the situation.
Mark McBride-Wright 35:53
It’s a really good point, isn’t it? It’s like it’s speaking to the individuals in the in the in the sense of the multiple hats that they wear in life, as an engineer at work, as a parent at home, or as an uncle or an auntie to, you know, other young people in their life, you know, and then thinking, Well, what action can you take in that bit your life? And do you have some privilege and power and role decision making that you could unlock something that then helps what you’re trying to achieve in your personal life, in your local community, but on a broader basis for the county within which you’re doing business, and maybe it’s actually then good for your business, because you can, I see, I see, I’ve been talking to some social value consultants on this. And I just, I see so much. I see such a gap right now between what comes out and to your point, when you said, when you your motivation for how the public purse can be used as a force for good to unlock opportunity. You know all that right now is trying to be baked in through the social value act, and what, what companies are doing through that, and what, what value they’re unlocking through the monies that they receive for, then the communities that they’re going to build a new hospital or build a bridge or build a wind turbine or whatever. I I think there’s a lack of understanding that within that social value language, that is where some of the stuff that we are discussing sits. And therefore there’s a perception that the funding of activities like the ones that our businesses offer, needs to come from core, centralized pots, which tend to be smaller compared to the you know what they’ve won on specific projects. So I feel like, if there was a bit of alignment nationally, I almost want, I’d love, to have a session where we get a map of the UK. We chunk it up, we look at each region. We layer on to it. What is the active industry in each region? What? What are the unique skills that are needed going forward in each region? Okay, next layer down, what is the STEM AMBASSADOR distribution through your network of employers and role models and what have you. And then look at, like the business pipeline of opportunities, of industry development, what are the skills needs that are going to be there and and then we get down to the the day to day interactions, and we almost like, I wonder if there’s a way to have, like, a big AI program that then tells you, like, what, what engagement activity needs to happen in, what post codes, what
Séverine Trouillet 38:31
you’re referring to, Mark is very interesting, because for us, social value is an interesting vehicle. And it’s a it’s a currency, so we are very keen to use it. And we say that we have measured through the Green Book methodology of the UK Government that every pound spent in STEM learning generates 26 pounds in so it gives you a, you know, a measure of the impact because of the you know, all the consequences and impact you have on the students, a teacher, the community around them, the fact that they are going to increase their earnings the students, if they choose a STEM career this, you know, safety of their jobs, etc. So, so for us, it’s a very important currency. And I would say for us, the place based engagement is going to be vital in this social value strategy, I think from February, any organization that beats from public for public money will have to talk about the social values that generate and for us, we see see that as an opportunity to have a place based strategy where you’re going to need to talk about how you really enhance the lives of your communities, around the wind turbine, around A new bridge or a new, you know, water facility that will allow us to do a place based approach, and also maybe layer that with the local skills mapping that is happening. And I think working with mayors, you know, working with local skills partnerships and. Local authorities, where they have a say, I think would be very important. So for us, the social value will be an opportunity to work in a place based environment. And it’s very interesting the way you talk about the map and the cold spots, because we work with the Ministry of Defense, because they’re extremely supportive in terms of developing stem University, not for you to join the army, but in general, for you to develop a love of STEM. And they’ve, they’ve started to look at at a map to see where their own intervention in stems is going, is it around their bases or other places? And their intention is to create that map to go where they identify cold spots. So a lot of people are thinking about that, and I think social value will be conducive to a more place based approach, because you will have to go around your project and demonstrate what is the social value you generate around the area where you are going to be supporting with infrastructure, with internet connection, whatever,
Mark McBride-Wright 41:05
exciting. And so I’m actually now based in Brooklyn, in New York, located recently. And so, yeah, I’m very interested to see what lies here, you know, and what learnings Can I bring from what we do in the United Kingdom over to here? And, you know, even in whatever the political headwinds are ahead of us with diversity and inclusion and equity and what is included and not included, I think it’ll go in a different direction to the way where the UK is, but we’re still going to need engineers, and we’re still going to need people, you know. So we can’t stop doing these sort of inspiration, opportunities, events, projects. So I don’t know.
Séverine Trouillet 41:55
I can’t see a world where, you know, you won’t need a STEM learning. You won’t need an equal engineers. It is something that is not better policy. How you do it? Who funds it? How much industry steps in? Because there will always be a need. When you look at the statistics, you know, 173,000 engineers and stem skilled professionals will be needed in the UK every year. And the UK economy loses 1.5 billion pounds every year. The skills gap, it’s, it’s, you know, so we need to think about how we tackle that problem, but by doing and making sure that we do sustained engagement. Because if you inspire somebody from the age of seven, you follow them. My My dream is to have STEM learning cohorts together, you know, with the people who fund us to make sure you can follow somebody they’ve got,
Mark McBride-Wright 42:46
like longitude, no, no. You
Séverine Trouillet 42:50
know that because you engage with them. With stem ambassadors, from the age of seven, they went on to a competition to build a satellite with a can. Then they went on to work in space. So we’ve got examples already of that, but we need many more.
Mark McBride-Wright 43:04
Oh, I’ve loved that. Well, I mean, the organization is only 20 years old. So you know that seven year old that you inspired and 20? Oh, God, do my math, you know? Is now, is now, is now out there. You know,
Séverine Trouillet 43:20
we had story. We had heard stories. For instance, a young student who heard a woman who was coming as STEM AMBASSADOR, working in biology that she find who inspiring, and she decided to study biology. And now she’s a university at in Edinburgh and Australian biology, and is also launching a AI company to add ed tech companies to use AI better. And she said this was the transformational moment. This was decided that I could do biology as well. Yeah, and it’s, it’s incredible. It gives you. Can transform the lives of young people by putting role models, by nurturing their science capital again and again,
Mark McBride-Wright 44:05
with all the with what you just described, as well, with the How to orchestrate the change. STEM learning has got the right person at the helm, because it must be so interesting, bringing in your public affairs and policy and politics experience to influence that strategy and figure out that pathway forward are you finding? Are you finding like you’re able to pull on strengths and skills that you’ve got from other parts of your career now, in this leadership role that you’re in,
Séverine Trouillet 44:38
I would say communication is a big one, because you need to articulate very clearly you know what your vision is and the impact you have and the interrelationship between things. So I think communication came in very handy, although there are challenges. Because, again, you know, funding is becoming sparse, so you need to, you know, double down and find your voice. I think that that’s great. One another one I take from my career in public affairs and different fields is the relationship. It’s all about human people. You know, it’s all about creating this relationship with others. And I think that I came from organizations and jobs where I had to do that, and and you have to help each other understand each other, so the relationships are key. I think another, another skill for me is the the fast learning. Being a, you know, I’m a Constant Learner. I’m a fast learner because you have to adapt. I’ve had to work in different fields, different countries, different languages, and I had to adapt quickly. And I think it’s something that, you know, as leaders we have to have in the future, because change is only going to accelerate. Yeah, I, you know, I witnessing a change in the demands on our employees, on, you know, what? How fast we need to adapt. And I think this resilience, this fast learning, is key, I think. And the last one for me is emotional intelligence. You need to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. You need to understand, how do they feel this money? Why do they need? How do we come to an agreement together? Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 46:16
oh, completely. Wow. Wow. Great advice there. Okay, quick fire questions, are you You ready for them? Yes. Okay, so what’s the most rewarding part of your job right now?
Séverine Trouillet 46:37
I think it’s when I hear the stories these young people you know, was decided to take up a career in STEM for me, that’s that’s the best thing. We had somebody called ashnabui, who came from a school where there were a lot of challenges. And she came on to a placement, a research placement, at the Oxford, Oxford scientific museum. And when she did that, she also learned about condition that impaired a vision. And so she found this placement transformational, and went on to study at Imperial College, and now wants to work in healthcare to find a solution, a treatment, for our condition. And she’s it’s so humbling to hear a story and to know that STEM learning has been instrumental in, you know, helping her find a passion and build a resilience, and just for moments like that, you know, you just want to do it every day. Absolutely okay,
Mark McBride-Wright 47:36
tea or coffee.
Séverine Trouillet 47:39
Tea, I’ve become a tea lover. I used to drink coffee, but when I moved to the UK, there was no going back.
Mark McBride-Wright 47:47
What book has influenced your leadership style the most?
Séverine Trouillet 47:52
I think, start with the why? Start
Mark McBride-Wright 47:54
with Why? Simon Sinek, morning person or night owl, morning definitely. What’s the one leadership skill you think everyone should work on?
Séverine Trouillet 48:06
Listening skills.
Mark McBride-Wright 48:08
What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?
Séverine Trouillet 48:13
Don’t be afraid. Don’t Don’t let anybody tell you what you can’t do. Just find out for yourself.
Mark McBride-Wright 48:17
If you can have dinner with any innovator, STEM professional past or present.
Séverine Trouillet 48:22
Who would it be? Marie Curie?
Mark McBride-Wright 48:26
What’s your favorite thing to do, to unwind after a long day,
Séverine Trouillet 48:31
going for a run, I think, and spending time with my kids.
Mark McBride-Wright 48:36
What’s the most exciting STEM project you’re currently working on?
Séverine Trouillet 48:42
There? There’s so many that, you know, it’s difficult to choose, but I would say, starting the new year and working with companies to make sure we do more work placement, because a lot of employers are wanting people with work based skills, and we need more to make sure young people and an industry find what they need.
Mark McBride-Wright 49:03
What’s the one thing you think will revolutionize STEM education in the next decade, artificial intelligence? And finally, what’s one habit you’ve developed that has been key to your success?
Séverine Trouillet 49:17
I think, keep your words. If you say you are going to do something to do it, and if you say what you’re going to do, it’s easier to keep your word as well.
Mark McBride-Wright 49:26
That’s great advice. Well, thank you very much. I’ve really, really enjoyed our chat today. If people want to get in touch with you, find out more about your work, what you do? Connect, find out more about STEM learning. How do they do that?
Séverine Trouillet 49:44
So they can go on our website, stem.org.uk, and to contact me. I’m on LinkedIn, so please feel free to drop me a message. Fabulous, delighted to work with people you know who are on the same wavelength.
Mark McBride-Wright 50:00
It’s wonderful a wavelength. Love That Good Good stem word there we’ll put, we’ll put those links in the show notes as well. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Thanks. Eveline, have a great day.
Séverine Trouillet 50:11
You too. Bye, bye, bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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