Dame Dawn Childs shares her inspiring engineering journey, from joining the Royal Air Force for sponsored education to leading transformative roles at Gatwick Airport, Merlin Entertainments, and National Grid. She now heads Pure Data Centres Group, building sustainable hyperscale data centres. Dame Dawn Childs discusses the importance of inclusion and diversity in engineering, drawing on her experiences as a long-time trustee and president of the Women’s Engineering Society. She emphasises the critical role of engineers in addressing global challenges and the need to showcase historical stories of pioneering women engineers to inspire the next generation.
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Mark McBride-Wright 0:00
Big microphone. Hello. Welcome to the next podcast of the safe leader, delighted to have with me today, Dame Don childs DBE frnge and CEO of pure data centers group Don is the CEO of pure data centers group building and operating hyper scale data centers. Before joining pure, she led a multi billion transformation program for national grid across both gas and electricity transmission businesses. This followed several senior engineering appointments as the group engineering director for Merlin Entertainments, with responsibility for engineering delivery and standards across the worldwide portfolio of theme parks, and the head of engineering at Gatwick Airport. She joined Gatwick after 23 years as an engineering officer in the Royal Air Force. She’s a trustee of the Royal Academy of Engineering, and chairs the audit and risk committee and a trustee of the air League. She was the longest serving president of the women’s Engineering Society, turning it around over a five year tenure, and is currently the chair of the infrastructure Masons DNI Committee. She was honored with a fellowship of the Royal Academy of Engineering in october 2020 in recognition of her outstanding contribution to the engineering profession, and was appointed a Dame Commander of the British Empire, DBE for services to engineering in the king’s New Year’s honors, 2023 whoo Dawn, you are an engineering celebrity, I
Dame Dawn Childs 1:43
wouldn’t go that far, but very kind of you today.
Mark McBride-Wright 1:47
So yeah, I’m really grateful for you giving up your time to come and come and chat with us today. So one of the things we like doing on the podcast is going back to the past and thinking about in your early years, what inspired you to get into engineering? You know, if you were to go back and speak to the young Dawn now, was engineering always on her radar? Was always where you were heading, or did you come across it? You know, a bit later on,
Dame Dawn Childs 2:19
yeah, it’s, yeah, it was, it was one of those things that I was never keen to be an engineer. I didn’t really know what an engineer was, but I did know that I was good at math. It’s in chemistry, as as lots of people were, and I wanted to get sponsored at university and engineering courses got sponsorships, so I kind of fell into engineering because I wanted to get sponsored at university.
Mark McBride-Wright 2:46
I see and with your with your role in the Royal Air Force. Did you were you in like the cadets when you were younger? Or did you did you discover that whilst you were at university, when did that chapter in your life start? So
Dame Dawn Childs 3:01
this will make me sound even worse, because the reason I joined the Air Force, and don’t get me wrong, it was quite difficult to get a cadetship, but it was because it was the largest level of sponsorship of an engineering course.
Mark McBride-Wright 3:14
I There is absolutely nothing unashamed about that. You know, we all we if we can find a pathway that minimizes the overhead that we have to incur, the investment that we have to make, then absolutely take it. You know, ironically,
Dame Dawn Childs 3:31
that the 17 year old brain that was me when I went to university didn’t really connect the dots, but I had to sign away to the age of 38 to to get this sponsorship from the Air Force. And as my parents pointed out, I signed away longer than I’d lived to get the sponsorship reasonable.
Mark McBride-Wright 3:55
So you had to what? So what did that? What does that mean? Because I haven’t done anything like that. So did you have to do do a portion of your time work, or you actually had to work in the Air Force?
Dame Dawn Childs 4:06
Yeah. So, yeah. So the cadetship was a, it was a permanent commission. And so the end of the permanent commission was either 16 years or to the age of 38 whichever was longer, and they sponsored you through university. Another sort of quirk was that at that time, which was the late 80s, I had the contract that I signed to get this sponsorship said that I wasn’t allowed to have children, and if I did have children, I’d be thrown out, and I’d have to pay back all the money they sponsored me with. No, yeah, oh my gosh, that was a thing. And again, my 17 year old brains went, Oh, it’s okay, because, you know, if I want to start a family, then they’ll throw me out anyway. So I’m not really signing away 21 years of my life. Not really,
Mark McBride-Wright 4:52
wow. When did, when did? I mean, the armed forces have moved on a lot, haven’t they, rapidly. So when. In the When did all that change? That
Dame Dawn Childs 5:03
changed sort of early, early to mid 90s. So, so absolutely, during my time in the Air Force, I could have completely started a family, and they would have supported that, but, but I think I always considered it’s like career or family, because that kind of sets a perception in your head, doesn’t it? So, yeah. So I felt that to progress, I needed to not have a family. Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 5:25
my goodness, my goodness. So, so you were, so you were in the Air Force, and when you were, what can you talk us through this? What you did then in the Air Force, what what engineering did was engineering your focal point. What did you study? Actually,
Dame Dawn Childs 5:41
I decided mechanical engineering. But then when you go into the Air Force proper and leave university, once you have your degree, you then go through a series of engineer officer training modules which give you the sort of aeronautical avionics, the sort of aircraft side of it, and and so, so although my base degree was mechanical, really, by the time I came out, I was sort of more aeronautical, not that I’d been able to go and design a plane, because clearly I didn’t have a degree in Aeronautical, but it was all aircraft maintenance. So I used to run aircraft maintenance teams, or then go into what was called the support authority. So, you know, reviewing maintenance philosophies for the aircraft and support and ensuring all the right equipment. Was there various different jobs throughout my time, normally changing roles every couple of years, but mostly large aircraft. So air transport, air to air refueling, aircraft, sort of Hercules, VC, 10s, tristars, and one of my favorite jobs, I was the Officer Commanding engineering for RAF Waddington, so I had all of the intelligence and surveillance platform. So the spy planes, basically.
Mark McBride-Wright 6:54
So so you one thing I’ve noticed with people when they leave the Armed Forces is they often in transition into civilian life, to be life as of, as of an abbreviation of learn, definition of learn, there tends to still then be a connection, a continued connection, to defense or to the armed forces. But looking at your career, where, where you’ve gone subsequently, you you haven’t really followed that. You haven’t really stayed within the defense side, which is, which is really interesting. How was that a conscious decision to depart from that? Or, I mean, Gatwick Airport, you’ve got the aviation side there. I guess was that your role straight out of the armed forces? Yes, right,
Dame Dawn Childs 7:40
it was. And so I I made a conscious decision, but if I was going to maximize my career potential because, because I left, pretty much every role that I’ve left isn’t because I didn’t enjoy the role or didn’t like the company or, you know, the Air Force in this example, where I was working, it was because I felt somehow career limited, or career ceiling in a way, and thought that I had more potential than they were allowing me at the time. So, so, yeah, so I went to Gatwick Airport consciously to not get boxed in to a sort of a singular career pathway to defense aviation.
Mark McBride-Wright 8:16
Yeah, well, I mean that that’s certainly was a good decision, because you’ve, think, you’ve, I don’t know if you can go any higher than where you’ve got,
Dame Dawn Childs 8:27
there’s always options for growth better, but, but, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s sort of, I like to think of it as taking a bet on myself. So every move I’ve made has been fraught with risk and hugely stressful but, but it’s sort of like betting on yourself and your own abilities and
Mark McBride-Wright 8:45
what so? What advice would you give to people listening to this that might find themselves in that situation currently, like, what do you have some kind of gut feeling where that starts to kick in, and then, is there a certain time phase from when you have that initial thought to them, right? I need to take action. Or is it quite spontaneous, you know? So it’s
Dame Dawn Childs 9:06
so in the military, I was, my heart was set on rising to the very top of the military, and my peer group, actually, you know, they currently are chief of the Air Staff, Deputy Chief of the Air Staff, etc. So, you know that so absolutely that they, I have colleagues who did do that, but at the point where it was apparent that I was no longer in the front running, sort of three years in a row, they’re very hierarchical in their their promotions. So three years in a row, I was number seven on the promotion list, and they promoted six, and so people were leapfrogging over me. So so it took me a few years to decide to leave the military, but then I did leave on a moment, I just went and resigned. Immediately after the last promotion board had read out, I thought, no that I’m clearly not going to get anywhere here. I need to try and find a different pathway for my career. So that was, that was sort of a long time come. But then spontaneous. But then after that, it’s sort of, it’s slightly more measured. It’s just seeking that the next level, or some broadening experience or something, and feeling that I’m, you know, I’m delivering in the role that I’m in, and that there isn’t an awful lot more that I could either achieve or that I would benefit the company where I am in continuing to do that role. And that’s when I then sort of opened myself up to everybody gets sent all sorts of offers on LinkedIn, then they all thought of this role. Have you thought of that role? And so normally, I was like, no, no, no. But then at the point where I feel like I’ve got a little bit more potential than I’m perhaps being afforded. Where I am, I start going, Oh, okay, let’s have a look at that. That might be interesting.
Mark McBride-Wright 10:48
And so, so talk us through them. What you did at Gatwick and Merlin, you know they’re so they’re two quite iconic brands. You know, people, people know what they are, but also very different, yes,
Dame Dawn Childs 11:01
yeah, and so, so Gatwick was a really big learning curve for me, because it was my first role out of the military and and I pretty quickly learned that leading teams, technical teams in the military was very different to leading them in a civilian business. Because, you know, I didn’t have your rank in the military, people tend to do what you ask them in civilian business, they don’t do what you ask them at all. Was quite, quite a shock to me that they didn’t. So having to figure out how to lead people in a civilian environment took me a little while to figure out, but, but once I’d done that, it was all about optimizing the engineering output of the airport, so clearly, maintaining safe standards and practices and the availability of the whether it’s the toy from the toilets to, you know, the runway lights, maintaining that availability for for the airport to stay Open 365 days a year as it does, and and figuring out how to do that in a cost, efficient and effective way. So, so yeah, the sort of big transformation program, because it’s like all infrastructure there’s, there’s quite a lot to be done, and it’s often times easy to reduce budgets by stepping back on maintenance. And then, of course, you get to that tipping point where all of a sudden there’s failures that aren’t expected, and more maintenance needs to be done, and and finding a way through all of that in a cost, cost efficient way is, is the really, where I think I come in to come to the fore,
Mark McBride-Wright 12:36
interesting, and then at Marlin, so Marlon. I mean, I’ve got many a fond memory of going to Thorpe Park, Alton Towers, you know, the other facilities that are that are in the group. What was it like leading an entertainment look, a group that, you know, helps keep the the UK nation entertained. Well.
Dame Dawn Childs 13:00
And yeah, it was, it was incredible. So I joined Merlin. My role, the engineering director role was created post the the terribly tragic spider accident and and part of the challenge had been technical and sort of within the engineering department and engineering standards and so on. So I was bought in to try and shore all of that up. And it was a big risk for me, because I knew nothing about theme parks and and it was also a it wasn’t just the UK theme parks. They had 100 and nearly 130 theme parks across 27 different countries. So, yeah. So everything from the theme parks here in the UK that we know and love to historic castles, sea creatures in the sea life centers and ski resorts in Australia, and, you know, all sorts of stuff. So, so, such a broad portfolio of very different equipment, and of course, all of which interacts directly with hundreds of members of the public on a daily basis. So so having all of those challenges and being able to make decisions and direct standards maintenance regimes and philosophies across across the globe, literally, with very different cultural thought processes in the different countries. Was was a real learning curve for me. It’s
Mark McBride-Wright 14:30
up. It’s a need. When I was diversifying from being a safety engineer in oil and gas and broadening out to look at, you know, construction and defense, I really started building my business equal engineers around targeting sections of engineering where the workforce are familiar with high risk and safety. I mean, I guess that’s most of engineering, but I very much used to pursue like the segmentation in my mind was always. Of like real energy, pharmaceutical, you know, things with processes. And I remember when we ran one of our career fairs in Birmingham, and there was an engineering safety consultancy that came, but their specialism wasn’t defense, wasn’t Marine, wasn’t energy, it was theme parks. It was, you know, they especially had a lot of contracts with Marlon. And I was like, my goodness, that’s what a fun application of your skills as an engineer to go more
Dame Dawn Childs 15:35
well. And it was joyous. It was joyous, right? Because, because, as long, as long as, you know, you did it right, that you were making loads and loads of people really happy. Was just always brilliant. Did you get any discourse? So? So, of course, in every single Merlin owned Park, when I visited, you could, you would have to go and have a go on most things because, you know, see how they were working. But also one of my favorite times was out in Florida. They used to do a safety consultation across all the major theme parks in Florida, and so you all had to go and participate. So you’d get to go to Disney World, then universal, then to Sea World, and of course, have a go on some of the rides, and you go straight and you don’t queue, you go straight in and straight on. So that was, that was brilliant. Was a great,
Mark McBride-Wright 16:29
yeah, that’s amazing. That is amazing. Yeah, that is cool. So you went then from Marlon to the role you’re at now, is that right? No,
Dame Dawn Childs 16:40
via national grid. So sorry,
Mark McBride-Wright 16:44
course, massive phase, yeah. What? So what? When, in your time at National Grid, I read a multi billion transformation that you took the business, yeah. So it
Dame Dawn Childs 16:52
was, it was the transition from one regulated period to the next. And, of course, like, a bit like, you’ve got the transition from one government to the next. At the moment, there’s savings programs to be run, and the same is true for national infrastructure. So at National Grid, across both gas and electricity, they were looking to see what changes need to be made to reduce costs for the general public, but also to make sure that the transmission equipment was maintained to the right level, and they had the right funding to to meet the requirements for the for the next period, and that was across both gas and electricity. And of course, at that time, some of the thinking for green transition, and, you know, and looking forward to net zero was was coming into mind as well. So some quite interesting times
Mark McBride-Wright 17:43
was that the transition point when gas, one of the gas company, became cadent. Cadent gas, yes,
Dame Dawn Childs 17:50
so during my time, when I first started it, that wasn’t on the records, but, but then gas was the announcement that gas was going to be sort of separated out was made, and also the Electricity System Operator was made separate as well, legally separate as well. So there was a significant time of change. And at the same time we were transforming the UK arm, there was a greater transformation going across the whole group, because, of course, national grids in the US
Mark McBride-Wright 18:19
as well in the US. Yes, I live in Brooklyn now, and so I am what there’s offices like around the corner. You know? It’s quite, quite nice seeing what I recognize as a UK engineering brand here, nearby the ESO. Only just recently did a rebrand, didn’t it? Yes, yeah, yes, that’s the that’s the one. That’s the one. So tell us a bit about what you do at pure, pure data centers. Very interesting, very relevant as well for where we’re going with AI and power consumption. And then I read a stat yesterday that data centers in the US account for 3% of all power now, but it’s going to go up to, like, 9% of the US is power requirements by And so Google is forming alliances with, you know, a small modular reactor to, like, buy clean energy. And it’s fascinating. It’s fascinating.
Dame Dawn Childs 19:21
Yes, yeah. And the, I think overall, the energy demand is a few percentages of global energy use, and is likely to go up, but, but over that time, the the level of compute has has increased tenfold. So, so it’s not it’s not all bad. That’s quite a lot being done to improve it. But yes, pure, pure data centers, group build and operate large scale data centers, so sort of 20 megawatts upwards for the largest tech companies in the world, whom I’m sure you could name. So my customers are the global brands that you would recognize who. Leading in the the internet and technology space, and what
Mark McBride-Wright 20:04
it makes me think back to my days as a safety engineer helping design power systems for oil and gas, you know, offshore facilities, and having to have layers of redundancy and uninterruptible power supplies in the event that there’s one failure mode that happens. So I’ve never done any engineering on a data center design, but I imagine it’s the same sort of thing. You have to have layers of protection. And, you know, you can’t just have any single point failures in it for the power to go off. You know, completely
Dame Dawn Childs 20:36
You’re right. And interestingly, the I was quite shocked when I first joined the industry, because, because we have what’s known as five nines uptime. So 99.999% uptime is required, so absolute resilience, redundancy, etc. And I reflected that actually the uptime of the grid was less than that. It sort of seemed slightly ironic, but the interconnected world, everybody is so reliant on it. And again, look at the recent crowd crowdage. You couldn’t shop, you couldn’t fly. You get there were all these things that you couldn’t do. And suddenly everybody realizes how connected the world is and how much flows through our data centers. So almost everything that you’re doing on a daily basis, including, of course, what we’re doing now, is all routed through through the amazing fiber network, and everything ends up in a data center. So yes, resilience and redundancy is required, and I think the onus is on us all. So not just the industry, but globally, everybody to think about how we step forward and use data wisely. And so, you know, consumers, we need to do a better job of explaining to consumers what the impact is. Consumers can then make informed choices. And as an industry, we need to be working really hard on ensuring that data centers are sustainable. So we’re all working on Power Solutions. We’re working on improving sustainable materials to reduce embodied carbon, and in fact, at pure we have our R and D arm, which is called a healthier Earth, which is working on all sorts of solutions, such as bio char with forest factory. So we’re planting 1000s of trees. So we’re doing all sorts of stuff which is slightly sort of left of center for a data center company. Yes, all absolutely focused on making data centers more sustainable. How can you
Mark McBride-Wright 22:33
give us an idea for how critical and important this industry is? It’s also quite absent, visibly from the minds of people, because it’s quite behind the scenes. You know, you don’t, you don’t go on tours of data centers, and they’re usually by virtue of how important they are in remote locations to, you know, make sure they’re safe, security wise, and what have you. And yet, the only time you may think about what they look like, or perceive what their look like is from what you see in a Hollywood film, where someone’s coming in and you’re seeing lots of, I don’t know, connections, and then you’re moving. I can’t remember what film I’ve got in my head now, but I’m thinking of one in particular that’s set in a data center, maybe James Bond film, or something. One of those films
Dame Dawn Childs 23:17
I need to go and find that film. I don’t know, but I will, I will, I will. Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 23:21
it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like an action film, but it, it makes me think that there’s these big things that we’re so reliant upon, as you say, yet they’re so hidden and so invisible. So how for the industry, like, what? How many people are employed in it? How do you market a career in in the sector, and what type of engineers are typically like, typically come in,
Dame Dawn Childs 23:50
yeah, and so. So I think anywhere you go, if there’s a large what looks like a warehouse that doesn’t have any branding, online supermarket branding, or you or something that you recognize, then that might well be a data center. So so they are, yes, there are some that are in remote locations, but very usually they are close to city centers. Because if you think when, when they were first created, it was next to financial sector. So London is a key, a key center for data centers. So, yeah, so any, any large warehouse you see, could well be a data center. I think the reason they’ve been not secret, but perhaps under the radar up until this point, is because it was simply, you know, it was like a water utility plant, you know, you didn’t necessarily need to know it was there. So it’s one of one of those things, but as it becomes more and more known and understood, I think we need to do a better job of explaining it to consumers, so they understand what it is and what it isn’t. Generally, there’s, there’s a good handful of engineers, security teams, cleaners, because it needs. Be a very clean environment, as well as it focused people, mainly from my customers, who will be in a data center. So I will routinely have a 24/7 shift pattern operating, which will consist of security people, obviously keep the place safe and secure, and engineers. And those engineers will be electrical engineers and power engineers, as well as heating and ventilation engineers, because clearly, there’s a lot of cooling that needs to go on of the server acts as pure data centers. We don’t have any of the IT specialists, because the servers and all of the clever stuff that goes on inside the data halls, is all to do with my customers, but they will absolutely have the right engineers to look after those bits of equipment.
Mark McBride-Wright 25:49
I see, I see, very interesting so, so you’ve, you know, we’ve only, and we’ve only really touched on, from what we’ve been talking about so far, is your what pays the money career. You know, you’ve done so much other stuff, and are continuing to do so much other stuff alongside your your your career as well. So I wanted to just ask a bit about your time when you were at the about some of those roles you know, your your time at the Women’s Engineering Society. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Dame Dawn Childs 26:24
Well? And so I first joined the women’s Engineering Society just to try and have a network and talk to some other engineers who might have had similar experiences to me working in what was a very male dominated environment. And then I was asked to be a trustee, and then after that, asked to stand up as president. So I was involved. In fact, I still am a patron, but I was involved as a trustee for first nearly seven years, and was president for over five. And it was, it was a fabulous, fabulous place because, you know, it brought together women engineers, and helped to try and ensure that they could get on in their careers, had a ready network of people to talk to and also share experiences, as well as learn from each other and showcase, you know, the great things that are going on because there are so many different types of engineers and different types of roles, and I think sort of describing that broad church of roles to people, it helps to inspire that the next generation of engineers, or even people in other careers who might want to transfer into engineering. So I felt that very much being visible role models and helping other female engineers to be visible role models, and realized the importance of that was was hugely valuable. So So I was more than happy to dedicate a whole bunch of time to the women’s Engineering Society.
Mark McBride-Wright 27:50
I’ve been involved on and off with Wes through strategic partnerships and things that we’ve worked on. And it was only this year and that I had the privilege of going to one of the conferences. I think it was the way as annual conference, I’ve been to the student conference before, actually, and I gave a I gave a talk at the at the event, and it was my first time. It’s probably my first time being at an engineering event and being in the minority. But it was, it was, it was absolutely fascinating. I loved the camaraderie that was there between the people attending, the real sense of community. And I’ll admit there was, there was one presentation where it was an aspect of ways that I’ve always I understand why it’s important. But I’ve always thought, why are we living in the past here? We should be looking to the future, and it’s the profiling through the history and those, those who bond before us and but it but to actually sit and listen to, you know, the results from the archiving and the what women are, what the women who fundamentally set up with, and what they’ve gone through, and also the ECA, you know, the women’s Electrical Contractors Association. It was fascinating. It was absolutely fascinating. I really, really enjoyed it. And it’s inspired me to sort of, whilst I’m here in the US for a couple of years, to do, to try and do some, some investigations into engineers of the past who have built, you know, this, this city here in New York. And so the first, the first structure that I’ve chosen is Brooklyn Bridge. And of course, there’s, there’s a whole story behind that that I discovered through looking about it. And Emily robling, she was married to the she was married to the son of the engineer who designed the bridge, and then the engineer who actually built the bridge, but he suffered from Lyme disease or something when doing the foundations. So essentially, Emily. Stepped in and oversaw the continued construction of the Brooklyn Bridge, the liaison with local lawmakers, the negotiations with, you know, financiers, etc, for a good 15 odd years. And so she essentially became an or like, like, an engineering contractor, project manager. You know, she wasn’t an engineer by trade, but her, she’d grown up around engineers and then took on this role, and had she not stepped in, the bridge wouldn’t have been completed. And there’s actually a plaque of her on the bridge. Oh, nice. So I am, I, yeah, I went and, you know, it’s another pet project that I’ve got alongside this podcast. I’ve recorded a video on it that I’m going to when I get tight and eventually put out there. But it’s fascinating. I’m so so the Wes historical Women in Engineering focus. I was just really surprised to find a female engineer linked to the first, first structure that I’ve chosen, you know. And it was, and, you know, I would have just, had I not practically gone from that, I just wouldn’t have known, you know, okay, her name’s there. I would have just kept going over the bridge and but I just so I could totally get Now, even more so than I did before, why it’s important to preserve these stories and raise awareness of them,
Dame Dawn Childs 31:25
and also for anyone you know in any realm of life who’s struggling and finding frustrations and not succeeding in the way they wish to, I think some of these fantastic historical stories show you what you know, how Success you know, can be found the other side of frustration. Think it’s really important. And one of my favorite films is Hidden Figures. I remember watching that for the first time on a plane. I was in floods of tears for like, the whole flight, people must have been looking at me like I was crazy. But because it’s just, it’s, it’s so it’s just staggeringly Amazing how hard some of these women, particularly women engineers, had to try to, you know, for their brilliance to then have a fantastic impact on the world and, you know, creating some of the world that we have today. So, yeah, I think it’s hugely important. And it also is inspirational for for, you know, the next generation coming through to see some of it. Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 32:17
it’s like, you can take yourself back to the headwinds that they faced at the time. But we have the privilege now of having that historical perspective, because, by virtue, it’s in the past, so you kind of know then what came but then you move to the present and think what we’re now going through, and then you think, well, what are, who are we now creating, and what’s the legacy that’s been left behind, but between our activities and our work. So it’s such that then the engineers in 100 years time that look back in this century are, you know, looking at looking at progress, and it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, I just think it’s fascinating. What do you so tell us a bit about your work with the Royal Academy of Engineering. You it’s the audit. You chair the audit and risk committee. How do you find operating at that kingdom, national level of oversight?
Dame Dawn Childs 33:08
And so, so it’s hugely interesting. And again, it’s a fabulous network of hugely successful and important engineers. So I feel very privileged to be part of that network. And I think it’s the least I can do to allocate a bit of my own time to try and help the story, the national story, in terms of engineering, and to help to influence government policy, to make sure that the engineer, engineering voice is heard around various aspects, and of course, sitting as the chair of the audit and risk committee, it just helps to maintain the governance structure that is around the Royal Academy. Because, of course, any any things that operate at the national level have to be subject to a significant amount of scrutiny. So as we’re ensuring we, we, yeah, we, we don’t inadvertently step step. The wrong way is important. So
Mark McBride-Wright 34:04
where do you see, you know, the UK has got a new government that’s come in. I think the academy is redoing its strategy now for like, the next five years or so. Where do you see engineering going in the next five years and beyond.
Dame Dawn Childs 34:21
And so I think we’re at a really unique moment in history where engineering is better understood, but also engineering is seen as the key to unlock so many of the challenges that we currently have. So think of the climate emergency. Think of our need to transition to net zero. Think of some of the challenges around the interconnected world that we now have. A lot of the solutions to these problems will have, will have a key in engineering, and so I think it’s really important to help you. UK government, but also to try and influence internationally and to shape what engineers can do and to make sure that the right questions are being asked and the right considerations are being had, because it would be very easy to not focus on the right aspects, and it would be very easy to perhaps step over some of the innovations that could help us to get to where we need to
Mark McBride-Wright 35:23
be. And what role do you think there’s a risk, you know, that the political dynamics have kind of gone in certain ways in certain areas of the world that are quite influential. Where do you see diversity, equity and inclusion playing a role within within engineering, is it got a really strong headwind ahead of it, in which case we’re going to see slower progress, or do you think it’s still alive and kicking and
Dame Dawn Childs 35:53
and so I think it has to, has to be alive and kicking, and not just for, you know, female engineers are in the minority, or whichever minority we may choose to focus on. But I think it has to, has to make progress, because inclusion is good for everybody, and the challenges of today are so extreme, we need to unlock the power of everybody’s brain and get everybody’s voice in the room and ensure that we get to innovation and inclusion is the vital pathway to that, because, you know, move away from visible and evident diversity and move on to sort of the invisible diversity that we have. So whether it’s neurodiversity or whatever it is, if you have an inclusive culture within engineering, within any businesses, then you allow everybody to bring their brains into the room and to not feel that they can’t speak up at the right time, and innovation will come out of there. You have to get everybody’s voice in. And so inclusion has got to be a pathway. So whilst it might be challenging, it might be difficult, and that there may have been a few sort of speed bumps along the way, I think it’s in everybody’s interest to get inclusion right, not for any one fraternity or another, but literally for everybody, and for the good of us achieving what we need To achieve through innovation. Do
Mark McBride-Wright 37:21
you think that view represents the majority of people that are at your level, like your leadership role or and if it does, then where do you think the barriers are like lower down in organizations? Because
Dame Dawn Childs 37:33
I hope it does, but I think there’s still a relative lack of understanding around what inclusion truly is. And so, so, you know, so I think there are some customs and practices and some behaviors that people just don’t understand are not inclusive. And so they they endeavor to do the right thing. They think they are doing the right thing. They advocate for being inclusive and having a diverse workforce. And so they get the rhetoric and they understand they talk about it, but they genuinely don’t understand where they’re going wrong, or why just talking about it isn’t the same as it truly being there and it happening. So I think, you know, being able to voice it versus being able to live it different things. And I think there are very few leaders who are really conscious of how they live it and you know, and even even I step on, step on landmines every now and again and inadvertently do things which weren’t as inclusive as they were they should have been, you know, or you know, was something that somebody else found offensive, and I genuinely didn’t mean it in that way. So, so it’s just, it’s about being more thoughtful. You know, taking time to be thoughtful, I think, is the is the important aspect, and the more we think about it and reflect that, the more likely we are to get the inclusion equation right.
Mark McBride-Wright 38:59
Really, really good advice. Okay, you ready for some quick fire? Go for it questions. Okay, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received? And
Dame Dawn Childs 39:12
so it was not in the same context, context, but it was nobody cares about what you do, apart from you, which I now summarize and pass on as in own your own destiny.
Mark McBride-Wright 39:25
What’s your proudest professional achievement?
Dame Dawn Childs 39:28
It’s got to be my dame hood.
Mark McBride-Wright 39:32
What’s one skill you think every engineer should have?
Dame Dawn Childs 39:34
Stepping back from a problem and thinking, what am I missing?
Mark McBride-Wright 39:41
Tea or Coffee, coffee? What’s your go to productivity hack, if
Dame Dawn Childs 39:47
an email is quick to answer answer it.
Mark McBride-Wright 39:51
If you could have dinner with any engineering leader or innovator past or present, who would it be?
Dame Dawn Childs 39:57
Amy Johnson, because although she. Was an aviator and famous for that, she was actually an engineer. She built several companies, including the air transport auxiliary in the Second World War, and she was also past president the women’s Engineering Society in 1934
Mark McBride-Wright 40:13
what’s the one thing you do to unwind after a long day?
Dame Dawn Childs 40:18
Get active. So walking, riding, swimming, going to the gym.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:22
What’s the most exciting project you’re working on right now,
Dame Dawn Childs 40:25
making data centers that are sustainable so moving to carbon negative.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:33
What’s one book or resource you’d recommend to someone interested in leadership?
Dame Dawn Childs 40:38
A book called strategic speed. I can’t remember who the authors are, but it talks about gaining clarity, unity and agility to move at pace.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:48
And finally, what’s the one piece of advice you’d give your younger self?
Dame Dawn Childs 40:52
Don’t try so hard to fit in, just be yourself.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:57
Very good advice. Well, thank you very much for your time today. Um, really enjoyed it. If people want to get in touch with you, want to find out more about the work that you’re involved with and the work that you’re doing, how can they how can they get in touch?
Dame Dawn Childs 41:13
They can reach out via LinkedIn. Dave Dawn, child, fabulous,
Mark McBride-Wright 41:17
well, we’ll put the link to that in the in the show notes as well. Thank you very much. Don really appreciate your time. My
Dame Dawn Childs 41:25
pleasure. Thank you. Mark you.
E012: Breaking Barriers & Taking Risks in Engineering
Podcast Description
Read the Transcript
Mark McBride-Wright 0:00
Big microphone. Hello. Welcome to the next podcast of the safe leader, delighted to have with me today, Dame Don childs DBE frnge and CEO of pure data centers group Don is the CEO of pure data centers group building and operating hyper scale data centers. Before joining pure, she led a multi billion transformation program for national grid across both gas and electricity transmission businesses. This followed several senior engineering appointments as the group engineering director for Merlin Entertainments, with responsibility for engineering delivery and standards across the worldwide portfolio of theme parks, and the head of engineering at Gatwick Airport. She joined Gatwick after 23 years as an engineering officer in the Royal Air Force. She’s a trustee of the Royal Academy of Engineering, and chairs the audit and risk committee and a trustee of the air League. She was the longest serving president of the women’s Engineering Society, turning it around over a five year tenure, and is currently the chair of the infrastructure Masons DNI Committee. She was honored with a fellowship of the Royal Academy of Engineering in october 2020 in recognition of her outstanding contribution to the engineering profession, and was appointed a Dame Commander of the British Empire, DBE for services to engineering in the king’s New Year’s honors, 2023 whoo Dawn, you are an engineering celebrity, I
Dame Dawn Childs 1:43
wouldn’t go that far, but very kind of you today.
Mark McBride-Wright 1:47
So yeah, I’m really grateful for you giving up your time to come and come and chat with us today. So one of the things we like doing on the podcast is going back to the past and thinking about in your early years, what inspired you to get into engineering? You know, if you were to go back and speak to the young Dawn now, was engineering always on her radar? Was always where you were heading, or did you come across it? You know, a bit later on,
Dame Dawn Childs 2:19
yeah, it’s, yeah, it was, it was one of those things that I was never keen to be an engineer. I didn’t really know what an engineer was, but I did know that I was good at math. It’s in chemistry, as as lots of people were, and I wanted to get sponsored at university and engineering courses got sponsorships, so I kind of fell into engineering because I wanted to get sponsored at university.
Mark McBride-Wright 2:46
I see and with your with your role in the Royal Air Force. Did you were you in like the cadets when you were younger? Or did you did you discover that whilst you were at university, when did that chapter in your life start? So
Dame Dawn Childs 3:01
this will make me sound even worse, because the reason I joined the Air Force, and don’t get me wrong, it was quite difficult to get a cadetship, but it was because it was the largest level of sponsorship of an engineering course.
Mark McBride-Wright 3:14
I There is absolutely nothing unashamed about that. You know, we all we if we can find a pathway that minimizes the overhead that we have to incur, the investment that we have to make, then absolutely take it. You know, ironically,
Dame Dawn Childs 3:31
that the 17 year old brain that was me when I went to university didn’t really connect the dots, but I had to sign away to the age of 38 to to get this sponsorship from the Air Force. And as my parents pointed out, I signed away longer than I’d lived to get the sponsorship reasonable.
Mark McBride-Wright 3:55
So you had to what? So what did that? What does that mean? Because I haven’t done anything like that. So did you have to do do a portion of your time work, or you actually had to work in the Air Force?
Dame Dawn Childs 4:06
Yeah. So, yeah. So the cadetship was a, it was a permanent commission. And so the end of the permanent commission was either 16 years or to the age of 38 whichever was longer, and they sponsored you through university. Another sort of quirk was that at that time, which was the late 80s, I had the contract that I signed to get this sponsorship said that I wasn’t allowed to have children, and if I did have children, I’d be thrown out, and I’d have to pay back all the money they sponsored me with. No, yeah, oh my gosh, that was a thing. And again, my 17 year old brains went, Oh, it’s okay, because, you know, if I want to start a family, then they’ll throw me out anyway. So I’m not really signing away 21 years of my life. Not really,
Mark McBride-Wright 4:52
wow. When did, when did? I mean, the armed forces have moved on a lot, haven’t they, rapidly. So when. In the When did all that change? That
Dame Dawn Childs 5:03
changed sort of early, early to mid 90s. So, so absolutely, during my time in the Air Force, I could have completely started a family, and they would have supported that, but, but I think I always considered it’s like career or family, because that kind of sets a perception in your head, doesn’t it? So, yeah. So I felt that to progress, I needed to not have a family. Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 5:25
my goodness, my goodness. So, so you were, so you were in the Air Force, and when you were, what can you talk us through this? What you did then in the Air Force, what what engineering did was engineering your focal point. What did you study? Actually,
Dame Dawn Childs 5:41
I decided mechanical engineering. But then when you go into the Air Force proper and leave university, once you have your degree, you then go through a series of engineer officer training modules which give you the sort of aeronautical avionics, the sort of aircraft side of it, and and so, so although my base degree was mechanical, really, by the time I came out, I was sort of more aeronautical, not that I’d been able to go and design a plane, because clearly I didn’t have a degree in Aeronautical, but it was all aircraft maintenance. So I used to run aircraft maintenance teams, or then go into what was called the support authority. So, you know, reviewing maintenance philosophies for the aircraft and support and ensuring all the right equipment. Was there various different jobs throughout my time, normally changing roles every couple of years, but mostly large aircraft. So air transport, air to air refueling, aircraft, sort of Hercules, VC, 10s, tristars, and one of my favorite jobs, I was the Officer Commanding engineering for RAF Waddington, so I had all of the intelligence and surveillance platform. So the spy planes, basically.
Mark McBride-Wright 6:54
So so you one thing I’ve noticed with people when they leave the Armed Forces is they often in transition into civilian life, to be life as of, as of an abbreviation of learn, definition of learn, there tends to still then be a connection, a continued connection, to defense or to the armed forces. But looking at your career, where, where you’ve gone subsequently, you you haven’t really followed that. You haven’t really stayed within the defense side, which is, which is really interesting. How was that a conscious decision to depart from that? Or, I mean, Gatwick Airport, you’ve got the aviation side there. I guess was that your role straight out of the armed forces? Yes, right,
Dame Dawn Childs 7:40
it was. And so I I made a conscious decision, but if I was going to maximize my career potential because, because I left, pretty much every role that I’ve left isn’t because I didn’t enjoy the role or didn’t like the company or, you know, the Air Force in this example, where I was working, it was because I felt somehow career limited, or career ceiling in a way, and thought that I had more potential than they were allowing me at the time. So, so, yeah, so I went to Gatwick Airport consciously to not get boxed in to a sort of a singular career pathway to defense aviation.
Mark McBride-Wright 8:16
Yeah, well, I mean that that’s certainly was a good decision, because you’ve, think, you’ve, I don’t know if you can go any higher than where you’ve got,
Dame Dawn Childs 8:27
there’s always options for growth better, but, but, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s sort of, I like to think of it as taking a bet on myself. So every move I’ve made has been fraught with risk and hugely stressful but, but it’s sort of like betting on yourself and your own abilities and
Mark McBride-Wright 8:45
what so? What advice would you give to people listening to this that might find themselves in that situation currently, like, what do you have some kind of gut feeling where that starts to kick in, and then, is there a certain time phase from when you have that initial thought to them, right? I need to take action. Or is it quite spontaneous, you know? So it’s
Dame Dawn Childs 9:06
so in the military, I was, my heart was set on rising to the very top of the military, and my peer group, actually, you know, they currently are chief of the Air Staff, Deputy Chief of the Air Staff, etc. So, you know that so absolutely that they, I have colleagues who did do that, but at the point where it was apparent that I was no longer in the front running, sort of three years in a row, they’re very hierarchical in their their promotions. So three years in a row, I was number seven on the promotion list, and they promoted six, and so people were leapfrogging over me. So so it took me a few years to decide to leave the military, but then I did leave on a moment, I just went and resigned. Immediately after the last promotion board had read out, I thought, no that I’m clearly not going to get anywhere here. I need to try and find a different pathway for my career. So that was, that was sort of a long time come. But then spontaneous. But then after that, it’s sort of, it’s slightly more measured. It’s just seeking that the next level, or some broadening experience or something, and feeling that I’m, you know, I’m delivering in the role that I’m in, and that there isn’t an awful lot more that I could either achieve or that I would benefit the company where I am in continuing to do that role. And that’s when I then sort of opened myself up to everybody gets sent all sorts of offers on LinkedIn, then they all thought of this role. Have you thought of that role? And so normally, I was like, no, no, no. But then at the point where I feel like I’ve got a little bit more potential than I’m perhaps being afforded. Where I am, I start going, Oh, okay, let’s have a look at that. That might be interesting.
Mark McBride-Wright 10:48
And so, so talk us through them. What you did at Gatwick and Merlin, you know they’re so they’re two quite iconic brands. You know, people, people know what they are, but also very different, yes,
Dame Dawn Childs 11:01
yeah, and so, so Gatwick was a really big learning curve for me, because it was my first role out of the military and and I pretty quickly learned that leading teams, technical teams in the military was very different to leading them in a civilian business. Because, you know, I didn’t have your rank in the military, people tend to do what you ask them in civilian business, they don’t do what you ask them at all. Was quite, quite a shock to me that they didn’t. So having to figure out how to lead people in a civilian environment took me a little while to figure out, but, but once I’d done that, it was all about optimizing the engineering output of the airport, so clearly, maintaining safe standards and practices and the availability of the whether it’s the toy from the toilets to, you know, the runway lights, maintaining that availability for for the airport to stay Open 365 days a year as it does, and and figuring out how to do that in a cost, efficient and effective way. So, so yeah, the sort of big transformation program, because it’s like all infrastructure there’s, there’s quite a lot to be done, and it’s often times easy to reduce budgets by stepping back on maintenance. And then, of course, you get to that tipping point where all of a sudden there’s failures that aren’t expected, and more maintenance needs to be done, and and finding a way through all of that in a cost, cost efficient way is, is the really, where I think I come in to come to the fore,
Mark McBride-Wright 12:36
interesting, and then at Marlin, so Marlon. I mean, I’ve got many a fond memory of going to Thorpe Park, Alton Towers, you know, the other facilities that are that are in the group. What was it like leading an entertainment look, a group that, you know, helps keep the the UK nation entertained. Well.
Dame Dawn Childs 13:00
And yeah, it was, it was incredible. So I joined Merlin. My role, the engineering director role was created post the the terribly tragic spider accident and and part of the challenge had been technical and sort of within the engineering department and engineering standards and so on. So I was bought in to try and shore all of that up. And it was a big risk for me, because I knew nothing about theme parks and and it was also a it wasn’t just the UK theme parks. They had 100 and nearly 130 theme parks across 27 different countries. So, yeah. So everything from the theme parks here in the UK that we know and love to historic castles, sea creatures in the sea life centers and ski resorts in Australia, and, you know, all sorts of stuff. So, so, such a broad portfolio of very different equipment, and of course, all of which interacts directly with hundreds of members of the public on a daily basis. So so having all of those challenges and being able to make decisions and direct standards maintenance regimes and philosophies across across the globe, literally, with very different cultural thought processes in the different countries. Was was a real learning curve for me. It’s
Mark McBride-Wright 14:30
up. It’s a need. When I was diversifying from being a safety engineer in oil and gas and broadening out to look at, you know, construction and defense, I really started building my business equal engineers around targeting sections of engineering where the workforce are familiar with high risk and safety. I mean, I guess that’s most of engineering, but I very much used to pursue like the segmentation in my mind was always. Of like real energy, pharmaceutical, you know, things with processes. And I remember when we ran one of our career fairs in Birmingham, and there was an engineering safety consultancy that came, but their specialism wasn’t defense, wasn’t Marine, wasn’t energy, it was theme parks. It was, you know, they especially had a lot of contracts with Marlon. And I was like, my goodness, that’s what a fun application of your skills as an engineer to go more
Dame Dawn Childs 15:35
well. And it was joyous. It was joyous, right? Because, because, as long, as long as, you know, you did it right, that you were making loads and loads of people really happy. Was just always brilliant. Did you get any discourse? So? So, of course, in every single Merlin owned Park, when I visited, you could, you would have to go and have a go on most things because, you know, see how they were working. But also one of my favorite times was out in Florida. They used to do a safety consultation across all the major theme parks in Florida, and so you all had to go and participate. So you’d get to go to Disney World, then universal, then to Sea World, and of course, have a go on some of the rides, and you go straight and you don’t queue, you go straight in and straight on. So that was, that was brilliant. Was a great,
Mark McBride-Wright 16:29
yeah, that’s amazing. That is amazing. Yeah, that is cool. So you went then from Marlon to the role you’re at now, is that right? No,
Dame Dawn Childs 16:40
via national grid. So sorry,
Mark McBride-Wright 16:44
course, massive phase, yeah. What? So what? When, in your time at National Grid, I read a multi billion transformation that you took the business, yeah. So it
Dame Dawn Childs 16:52
was, it was the transition from one regulated period to the next. And, of course, like, a bit like, you’ve got the transition from one government to the next. At the moment, there’s savings programs to be run, and the same is true for national infrastructure. So at National Grid, across both gas and electricity, they were looking to see what changes need to be made to reduce costs for the general public, but also to make sure that the transmission equipment was maintained to the right level, and they had the right funding to to meet the requirements for the for the next period, and that was across both gas and electricity. And of course, at that time, some of the thinking for green transition, and, you know, and looking forward to net zero was was coming into mind as well. So some quite interesting times
Mark McBride-Wright 17:43
was that the transition point when gas, one of the gas company, became cadent. Cadent gas, yes,
Dame Dawn Childs 17:50
so during my time, when I first started it, that wasn’t on the records, but, but then gas was the announcement that gas was going to be sort of separated out was made, and also the Electricity System Operator was made separate as well, legally separate as well. So there was a significant time of change. And at the same time we were transforming the UK arm, there was a greater transformation going across the whole group, because, of course, national grids in the US
Mark McBride-Wright 18:19
as well in the US. Yes, I live in Brooklyn now, and so I am what there’s offices like around the corner. You know? It’s quite, quite nice seeing what I recognize as a UK engineering brand here, nearby the ESO. Only just recently did a rebrand, didn’t it? Yes, yeah, yes, that’s the that’s the one. That’s the one. So tell us a bit about what you do at pure, pure data centers. Very interesting, very relevant as well for where we’re going with AI and power consumption. And then I read a stat yesterday that data centers in the US account for 3% of all power now, but it’s going to go up to, like, 9% of the US is power requirements by And so Google is forming alliances with, you know, a small modular reactor to, like, buy clean energy. And it’s fascinating. It’s fascinating.
Dame Dawn Childs 19:21
Yes, yeah. And the, I think overall, the energy demand is a few percentages of global energy use, and is likely to go up, but, but over that time, the the level of compute has has increased tenfold. So, so it’s not it’s not all bad. That’s quite a lot being done to improve it. But yes, pure, pure data centers, group build and operate large scale data centers, so sort of 20 megawatts upwards for the largest tech companies in the world, whom I’m sure you could name. So my customers are the global brands that you would recognize who. Leading in the the internet and technology space, and what
Mark McBride-Wright 20:04
it makes me think back to my days as a safety engineer helping design power systems for oil and gas, you know, offshore facilities, and having to have layers of redundancy and uninterruptible power supplies in the event that there’s one failure mode that happens. So I’ve never done any engineering on a data center design, but I imagine it’s the same sort of thing. You have to have layers of protection. And, you know, you can’t just have any single point failures in it for the power to go off. You know, completely
Dame Dawn Childs 20:36
You’re right. And interestingly, the I was quite shocked when I first joined the industry, because, because we have what’s known as five nines uptime. So 99.999% uptime is required, so absolute resilience, redundancy, etc. And I reflected that actually the uptime of the grid was less than that. It sort of seemed slightly ironic, but the interconnected world, everybody is so reliant on it. And again, look at the recent crowd crowdage. You couldn’t shop, you couldn’t fly. You get there were all these things that you couldn’t do. And suddenly everybody realizes how connected the world is and how much flows through our data centers. So almost everything that you’re doing on a daily basis, including, of course, what we’re doing now, is all routed through through the amazing fiber network, and everything ends up in a data center. So yes, resilience and redundancy is required, and I think the onus is on us all. So not just the industry, but globally, everybody to think about how we step forward and use data wisely. And so, you know, consumers, we need to do a better job of explaining to consumers what the impact is. Consumers can then make informed choices. And as an industry, we need to be working really hard on ensuring that data centers are sustainable. So we’re all working on Power Solutions. We’re working on improving sustainable materials to reduce embodied carbon, and in fact, at pure we have our R and D arm, which is called a healthier Earth, which is working on all sorts of solutions, such as bio char with forest factory. So we’re planting 1000s of trees. So we’re doing all sorts of stuff which is slightly sort of left of center for a data center company. Yes, all absolutely focused on making data centers more sustainable. How can you
Mark McBride-Wright 22:33
give us an idea for how critical and important this industry is? It’s also quite absent, visibly from the minds of people, because it’s quite behind the scenes. You know, you don’t, you don’t go on tours of data centers, and they’re usually by virtue of how important they are in remote locations to, you know, make sure they’re safe, security wise, and what have you. And yet, the only time you may think about what they look like, or perceive what their look like is from what you see in a Hollywood film, where someone’s coming in and you’re seeing lots of, I don’t know, connections, and then you’re moving. I can’t remember what film I’ve got in my head now, but I’m thinking of one in particular that’s set in a data center, maybe James Bond film, or something. One of those films
Dame Dawn Childs 23:17
I need to go and find that film. I don’t know, but I will, I will, I will. Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 23:21
it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like an action film, but it, it makes me think that there’s these big things that we’re so reliant upon, as you say, yet they’re so hidden and so invisible. So how for the industry, like, what? How many people are employed in it? How do you market a career in in the sector, and what type of engineers are typically like, typically come in,
Dame Dawn Childs 23:50
yeah, and so. So I think anywhere you go, if there’s a large what looks like a warehouse that doesn’t have any branding, online supermarket branding, or you or something that you recognize, then that might well be a data center. So so they are, yes, there are some that are in remote locations, but very usually they are close to city centers. Because if you think when, when they were first created, it was next to financial sector. So London is a key, a key center for data centers. So, yeah, so any, any large warehouse you see, could well be a data center. I think the reason they’ve been not secret, but perhaps under the radar up until this point, is because it was simply, you know, it was like a water utility plant, you know, you didn’t necessarily need to know it was there. So it’s one of one of those things, but as it becomes more and more known and understood, I think we need to do a better job of explaining it to consumers, so they understand what it is and what it isn’t. Generally, there’s, there’s a good handful of engineers, security teams, cleaners, because it needs. Be a very clean environment, as well as it focused people, mainly from my customers, who will be in a data center. So I will routinely have a 24/7 shift pattern operating, which will consist of security people, obviously keep the place safe and secure, and engineers. And those engineers will be electrical engineers and power engineers, as well as heating and ventilation engineers, because clearly, there’s a lot of cooling that needs to go on of the server acts as pure data centers. We don’t have any of the IT specialists, because the servers and all of the clever stuff that goes on inside the data halls, is all to do with my customers, but they will absolutely have the right engineers to look after those bits of equipment.
Mark McBride-Wright 25:49
I see, I see, very interesting so, so you’ve, you know, we’ve only, and we’ve only really touched on, from what we’ve been talking about so far, is your what pays the money career. You know, you’ve done so much other stuff, and are continuing to do so much other stuff alongside your your your career as well. So I wanted to just ask a bit about your time when you were at the about some of those roles you know, your your time at the Women’s Engineering Society. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Dame Dawn Childs 26:24
Well? And so I first joined the women’s Engineering Society just to try and have a network and talk to some other engineers who might have had similar experiences to me working in what was a very male dominated environment. And then I was asked to be a trustee, and then after that, asked to stand up as president. So I was involved. In fact, I still am a patron, but I was involved as a trustee for first nearly seven years, and was president for over five. And it was, it was a fabulous, fabulous place because, you know, it brought together women engineers, and helped to try and ensure that they could get on in their careers, had a ready network of people to talk to and also share experiences, as well as learn from each other and showcase, you know, the great things that are going on because there are so many different types of engineers and different types of roles, and I think sort of describing that broad church of roles to people, it helps to inspire that the next generation of engineers, or even people in other careers who might want to transfer into engineering. So I felt that very much being visible role models and helping other female engineers to be visible role models, and realized the importance of that was was hugely valuable. So So I was more than happy to dedicate a whole bunch of time to the women’s Engineering Society.
Mark McBride-Wright 27:50
I’ve been involved on and off with Wes through strategic partnerships and things that we’ve worked on. And it was only this year and that I had the privilege of going to one of the conferences. I think it was the way as annual conference, I’ve been to the student conference before, actually, and I gave a I gave a talk at the at the event, and it was my first time. It’s probably my first time being at an engineering event and being in the minority. But it was, it was, it was absolutely fascinating. I loved the camaraderie that was there between the people attending, the real sense of community. And I’ll admit there was, there was one presentation where it was an aspect of ways that I’ve always I understand why it’s important. But I’ve always thought, why are we living in the past here? We should be looking to the future, and it’s the profiling through the history and those, those who bond before us and but it but to actually sit and listen to, you know, the results from the archiving and the what women are, what the women who fundamentally set up with, and what they’ve gone through, and also the ECA, you know, the women’s Electrical Contractors Association. It was fascinating. It was absolutely fascinating. I really, really enjoyed it. And it’s inspired me to sort of, whilst I’m here in the US for a couple of years, to do, to try and do some, some investigations into engineers of the past who have built, you know, this, this city here in New York. And so the first, the first structure that I’ve chosen is Brooklyn Bridge. And of course, there’s, there’s a whole story behind that that I discovered through looking about it. And Emily robling, she was married to the she was married to the son of the engineer who designed the bridge, and then the engineer who actually built the bridge, but he suffered from Lyme disease or something when doing the foundations. So essentially, Emily. Stepped in and oversaw the continued construction of the Brooklyn Bridge, the liaison with local lawmakers, the negotiations with, you know, financiers, etc, for a good 15 odd years. And so she essentially became an or like, like, an engineering contractor, project manager. You know, she wasn’t an engineer by trade, but her, she’d grown up around engineers and then took on this role, and had she not stepped in, the bridge wouldn’t have been completed. And there’s actually a plaque of her on the bridge. Oh, nice. So I am, I, yeah, I went and, you know, it’s another pet project that I’ve got alongside this podcast. I’ve recorded a video on it that I’m going to when I get tight and eventually put out there. But it’s fascinating. I’m so so the Wes historical Women in Engineering focus. I was just really surprised to find a female engineer linked to the first, first structure that I’ve chosen, you know. And it was, and, you know, I would have just, had I not practically gone from that, I just wouldn’t have known, you know, okay, her name’s there. I would have just kept going over the bridge and but I just so I could totally get Now, even more so than I did before, why it’s important to preserve these stories and raise awareness of them,
Dame Dawn Childs 31:25
and also for anyone you know in any realm of life who’s struggling and finding frustrations and not succeeding in the way they wish to, I think some of these fantastic historical stories show you what you know, how Success you know, can be found the other side of frustration. Think it’s really important. And one of my favorite films is Hidden Figures. I remember watching that for the first time on a plane. I was in floods of tears for like, the whole flight, people must have been looking at me like I was crazy. But because it’s just, it’s, it’s so it’s just staggeringly Amazing how hard some of these women, particularly women engineers, had to try to, you know, for their brilliance to then have a fantastic impact on the world and, you know, creating some of the world that we have today. So, yeah, I think it’s hugely important. And it also is inspirational for for, you know, the next generation coming through to see some of it. Yeah,
Mark McBride-Wright 32:17
it’s like, you can take yourself back to the headwinds that they faced at the time. But we have the privilege now of having that historical perspective, because, by virtue, it’s in the past, so you kind of know then what came but then you move to the present and think what we’re now going through, and then you think, well, what are, who are we now creating, and what’s the legacy that’s been left behind, but between our activities and our work. So it’s such that then the engineers in 100 years time that look back in this century are, you know, looking at looking at progress, and it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, I just think it’s fascinating. What do you so tell us a bit about your work with the Royal Academy of Engineering. You it’s the audit. You chair the audit and risk committee. How do you find operating at that kingdom, national level of oversight?
Dame Dawn Childs 33:08
And so, so it’s hugely interesting. And again, it’s a fabulous network of hugely successful and important engineers. So I feel very privileged to be part of that network. And I think it’s the least I can do to allocate a bit of my own time to try and help the story, the national story, in terms of engineering, and to help to influence government policy, to make sure that the engineer, engineering voice is heard around various aspects, and of course, sitting as the chair of the audit and risk committee, it just helps to maintain the governance structure that is around the Royal Academy. Because, of course, any any things that operate at the national level have to be subject to a significant amount of scrutiny. So as we’re ensuring we, we, yeah, we, we don’t inadvertently step step. The wrong way is important. So
Mark McBride-Wright 34:04
where do you see, you know, the UK has got a new government that’s come in. I think the academy is redoing its strategy now for like, the next five years or so. Where do you see engineering going in the next five years and beyond.
Dame Dawn Childs 34:21
And so I think we’re at a really unique moment in history where engineering is better understood, but also engineering is seen as the key to unlock so many of the challenges that we currently have. So think of the climate emergency. Think of our need to transition to net zero. Think of some of the challenges around the interconnected world that we now have. A lot of the solutions to these problems will have, will have a key in engineering, and so I think it’s really important to help you. UK government, but also to try and influence internationally and to shape what engineers can do and to make sure that the right questions are being asked and the right considerations are being had, because it would be very easy to not focus on the right aspects, and it would be very easy to perhaps step over some of the innovations that could help us to get to where we need to
Mark McBride-Wright 35:23
be. And what role do you think there’s a risk, you know, that the political dynamics have kind of gone in certain ways in certain areas of the world that are quite influential. Where do you see diversity, equity and inclusion playing a role within within engineering, is it got a really strong headwind ahead of it, in which case we’re going to see slower progress, or do you think it’s still alive and kicking and
Dame Dawn Childs 35:53
and so I think it has to, has to be alive and kicking, and not just for, you know, female engineers are in the minority, or whichever minority we may choose to focus on. But I think it has to, has to make progress, because inclusion is good for everybody, and the challenges of today are so extreme, we need to unlock the power of everybody’s brain and get everybody’s voice in the room and ensure that we get to innovation and inclusion is the vital pathway to that, because, you know, move away from visible and evident diversity and move on to sort of the invisible diversity that we have. So whether it’s neurodiversity or whatever it is, if you have an inclusive culture within engineering, within any businesses, then you allow everybody to bring their brains into the room and to not feel that they can’t speak up at the right time, and innovation will come out of there. You have to get everybody’s voice in. And so inclusion has got to be a pathway. So whilst it might be challenging, it might be difficult, and that there may have been a few sort of speed bumps along the way, I think it’s in everybody’s interest to get inclusion right, not for any one fraternity or another, but literally for everybody, and for the good of us achieving what we need To achieve through innovation. Do
Mark McBride-Wright 37:21
you think that view represents the majority of people that are at your level, like your leadership role or and if it does, then where do you think the barriers are like lower down in organizations? Because
Dame Dawn Childs 37:33
I hope it does, but I think there’s still a relative lack of understanding around what inclusion truly is. And so, so, you know, so I think there are some customs and practices and some behaviors that people just don’t understand are not inclusive. And so they they endeavor to do the right thing. They think they are doing the right thing. They advocate for being inclusive and having a diverse workforce. And so they get the rhetoric and they understand they talk about it, but they genuinely don’t understand where they’re going wrong, or why just talking about it isn’t the same as it truly being there and it happening. So I think, you know, being able to voice it versus being able to live it different things. And I think there are very few leaders who are really conscious of how they live it and you know, and even even I step on, step on landmines every now and again and inadvertently do things which weren’t as inclusive as they were they should have been, you know, or you know, was something that somebody else found offensive, and I genuinely didn’t mean it in that way. So, so it’s just, it’s about being more thoughtful. You know, taking time to be thoughtful, I think, is the is the important aspect, and the more we think about it and reflect that, the more likely we are to get the inclusion equation right.
Mark McBride-Wright 38:59
Really, really good advice. Okay, you ready for some quick fire? Go for it questions. Okay, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received? And
Dame Dawn Childs 39:12
so it was not in the same context, context, but it was nobody cares about what you do, apart from you, which I now summarize and pass on as in own your own destiny.
Mark McBride-Wright 39:25
What’s your proudest professional achievement?
Dame Dawn Childs 39:28
It’s got to be my dame hood.
Mark McBride-Wright 39:32
What’s one skill you think every engineer should have?
Dame Dawn Childs 39:34
Stepping back from a problem and thinking, what am I missing?
Mark McBride-Wright 39:41
Tea or Coffee, coffee? What’s your go to productivity hack, if
Dame Dawn Childs 39:47
an email is quick to answer answer it.
Mark McBride-Wright 39:51
If you could have dinner with any engineering leader or innovator past or present, who would it be?
Dame Dawn Childs 39:57
Amy Johnson, because although she. Was an aviator and famous for that, she was actually an engineer. She built several companies, including the air transport auxiliary in the Second World War, and she was also past president the women’s Engineering Society in 1934
Mark McBride-Wright 40:13
what’s the one thing you do to unwind after a long day?
Dame Dawn Childs 40:18
Get active. So walking, riding, swimming, going to the gym.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:22
What’s the most exciting project you’re working on right now,
Dame Dawn Childs 40:25
making data centers that are sustainable so moving to carbon negative.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:33
What’s one book or resource you’d recommend to someone interested in leadership?
Dame Dawn Childs 40:38
A book called strategic speed. I can’t remember who the authors are, but it talks about gaining clarity, unity and agility to move at pace.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:48
And finally, what’s the one piece of advice you’d give your younger self?
Dame Dawn Childs 40:52
Don’t try so hard to fit in, just be yourself.
Mark McBride-Wright 40:57
Very good advice. Well, thank you very much for your time today. Um, really enjoyed it. If people want to get in touch with you, want to find out more about the work that you’re involved with and the work that you’re doing, how can they how can they get in touch?
Dame Dawn Childs 41:13
They can reach out via LinkedIn. Dave Dawn, child, fabulous,
Mark McBride-Wright 41:17
well, we’ll put the link to that in the in the show notes as well. Thank you very much. Don really appreciate your time. My
Dame Dawn Childs 41:25
pleasure. Thank you. Mark you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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